American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

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Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Hi Ed.

Photo 1. B-17E 41-2609 "Loose Goose" 63BS / 43BG probably on N. Guinea. Returned to USA.
Photo 2. Early 304BW with diamond designator before colour markings in April 1944, but after squadron colour letters introduced.

Photo 3. 38BG at Itawi, Japan---also called Osaka AB between 10/46--4/49. High letters should be 405BS "Green Dragons".


Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Hi Nick,


Thank you. You are a wealth of knowledge.


Best,
Ed

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Ed- a few short notes on these.......


Photo 1. 22BG, 19 or 33 BSs (white or yellow bands). Okinawa 8/45.
2. 90BG Ie Shima 8/45. Last 3 numbers on squadron colour tails.
3. (B-24M) 528 / 380 Okinawa 8/45.
4. C-46 Phillipines 1945 ( "X" designator = 375TCG ).
5. (F-13) 42-93852, she photographed Tokyo for the first mission to the capital, from Saipan. 3rd PRS.
6. 678 / 444BG lead aircraft ( striped fuselage band, the band in squadron colour). Early markings from Dudhkundi, India 1944. Cobra insignia.
7. Probably 29BG Guam 1945.
8. 676 / 444 Tinian 1945; "Eleanor / Jo" 42-65337, damaged and landed on Iwo Jima.
9. I think this is 42-24736, 678 / 444 belly-landed Feb 1 1945, cobra badge (738 was 45 / 40BG "Honeywell Honey" ).
10. 676 / 444BG 42-24538 with Dragon insignia, tail marking Diamond 24.
11. "Blue Bonnet Belle" 42-6307 , 679 / 444 with winged bull insignia. To 676BS, still with Bull badge, when the 4th sqn. in B-29 Groups was disbanded in Oct. 1944. Tail Diamond 25.
12. 676 / 444, the "Reluctant Dragon" squadron badge (not approved until June 45).

Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Nick,


Outstanding. Thank you.


Best,
Ed

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Ed---- update on photo 7.
I think this is 22BG (VH) in 1946. The back of the photo reads


"B-29s on Kadena runway. These are Doolittle's 8th Air Force planes."
The Group was there April 1946 to May 1948 with B-29s, assigned to 316BW which was there to June 1948 (the other Groups were in the Marianas); Eighth AF was based on Okinawa July 1945 to June 1946, though Doolittle wasn't Commander then it was still known as "his" Air Force.

Although there could have been B-29s from other Groups calling at Kadena for various reasons the 22nd seems most likely.


Regards Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Sorry Ed these are unlikely to be 22BG; the note on the photos ( " Doolittle's 8th Air Force planes") means more likely the 2 B-29 Groups from the 316BW at Kadena, 333rd ( Aug.5 1945 to 28 May 1946) or 346th (Aug.7 1945 to 30 June 1946). Wing HQ was also there. Eighth AF was established on Okinawa July 16 1945, Doolittle commanding 3 days later. They look like new planes, no markings.

The 22BG didn't move to Okinawa until May-June 1946 when they got B-29s.

The other 2 Groups from the Wing were on Guam and Tinian.
Regards
Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Ed. A few notes here.
Photo 1. B-17E 41-2659 "Frank Buck" ( "Bring 'em back alive") 43BG ( ex-19th) N. Guinea 1944.
2. B-17G 42-39999 "Bataan Avenger" 49BS/ 2BG ditched in the Adriatic.
3. B-17F 42-29480 99BG (Fifteenth AF) ex-483rd. "Cotton Eyed Joe".

4. B-17F 41-2537 probably at Wright Fd. 1944.
5. Looks like a "Snooper" a black B-24J from the 868BS (Thirteenth AF). Night ops.
6. B-24J "Reddy Teddy" 42-51551 (Ford), 714BS/448BG ( Eighth).
7. P-38G or H N. Guinea 1943; the square style of numbers could be 49FG (9FS = 70-99).
8. P-51D looks familiar but can't remember.
9. B-25 (?).

10. B-25D 41-29705 "Baby Blitz" 13BS / 3BG N. Guinea 1943 (scrapped).
11.B-29 (Omaha) "Lil Butch" 19BG (93BS = probably 41-60). Ex-497BG, their "A Square" visible below and one of several re-marked.

12. B-29 (?).



Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Photo 8 P-51D. Think this could be 44-13654 OS-G (357 / 355) pilot Gilleland, he flew a P-51B same name; the band behind the spinner is probably part of the theatre marking of black spinner and band, after the group's white spinner added.

The squadron colour nose bands ( 357= blue) and rudders weren't marked until Oct -Nov. 1944. and she was lost in August with another pilot. Also the band is half the width of the squadron marking.


Nick
PS. The B-25 Photo 9 may be 42-32388 converted to TB-25G (last numbers look like 388).

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Nick,


Thanks again. Very helpful.


Best,
Ed

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Hi Ed. Found that B-29 Photo 12.
This is 42-24823 483BS / 505BG; she had various names, "NCB 27th Spec./ Delivers the Goods" also "Dangerous Lady" on left side with a young lady. Base was N. Field Tinian. There was a B-29 "27th NCB Special / Eh High Doc" with different artwork (Bugs Bunny) which was probably a different aircraft in the Wing, but same Seabees unit.

N.C.B. = a tribute to the Naval Construction Battalions (Seabees) who built their airfields. She survived the war. Tail designator was Circle "W" with green tip.
Her pre-April tail marking was " K Triangle 25" as in another photo.


Regards
Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Hi Nick,


Your efforts are much appreciated.


Best,
Ed

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

To me the #8 P-51D "GEORGIA PEACH" is from the 531st Fighter Squadron 21st Fighter Group 7th Air Force. The background doesn't look like the UK and tanks were used in the 7th AF most of the time.

Rick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Found a link to the 21st FG with photos .
https://www.7thfighter.com/21stfg/index.htm

Rick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Thanks Rick I'm sure you are right, looks like Iwo; the nose markings are 531FS and the rounded letters also on others in the sqn. like "Shrimp IV" and "Miss Jackie".
The tanks look more like 165 Gals rather than 110.
Must concentrate.



Regards
Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Hi Ed. A couple here I'm not sure about, maybe someone can help.


No.1 P-47D-28 41FS / 35FG Phillipines ; named "Badger Beauty 6th". Yellow squadron colour nose and late-war blue tail band with yellow number 85.
No.2 P-61 418NFS Phillipines ; Gloss Black (Jet) with red serial not readable.
No.3 P-40Ns, could be 49FG but may be some transferred to the 71TRG when the 49th converted to P-38s in 1944 and high numbers retained.
No.4 Boston III, 22 Sqn. RAAF, DU-L may be A28-10. Morotai 1944.
No.5 PV-1 Ventura; 874 could be Bu.No. 34874 (VPB-146 on Moratai).
No.6 C-46 ? names may be 2 girls, Pat and Rachel.
No.7 A-25A Shrike 41-18798 possibly 13FS in Florida, an RTU unit; the dot between the first 2 numbers are seen on other trainers / tow-tugs in the US (later RA-25A).


Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Thanks Nick. Much appreciated.

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

There were PB4Ys and PBYs on Morotai the same time as PVs (Fleet Air Wing 17 from 19/10/44 to 30/12/44) the PBY is a "Black Cat" possibly from VPB 71, they were Matt Black overall and on Morotai in Nov.-Dec. VP/VPB 11 also there Oct.-Nov. The Liberator looks like a Navy PB4Y-1, in the old Blue Grey-Light Grey rather than Army Olive Drab; one of 3 VPBs there.

If the PV is 34874 she was wrecked in a Jap air raid in the Admiralty Is. 29/11/44.
There were PBM Mariners from VPB 20 "Nightmares" on Morotai from Oct. ( I think they had some black aircraft).


Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Very impressive Nick

You should do a book one day.... :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

As regards VPB20 I presume you mean that the squadron was tender based at Morotai (USS Tangier) rather than "on" the island.

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Thanks George yes "on" was the wrong word. According to Navy sites she was there 21/9/44 to 1/12/44; at one time the Flagship of COMAIR 7th Fleet.


May I ask a question as you are an SB2C enthusiast ? Have you any thoughts on the odd serial presentation on some A-25s (like 41-18774, 41-18787 and 41-18826) and other Curtiss types like AT-9s such as 41-11972, 41-12025 and 41-12150? It seems to be a Curtiss practice to put a dot between first and second digits as in Ed's photo.
Just been bugging me for a while.


Cheers
Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

I know little about Army practices but the "dot" appears to be restricted to FY41 aircraft built by the St Louis plant and, as an abbreviation of the dash, makes it easier to fit the full serial number on the fin. Presumably it's use was approved by the Army inspector at the St Louis factory?

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Army-Navy Bulletins and their Inspectorates were primarily concerned with colour standards and specified detail markings like data panels, as long as serials were correct colours and sizes (but even these varied occasionally like red on some C-47s) it seems the actual presentation was left to the factory, in this case Curtiss St. Louis (Lambert Field).
The blocks concerned were (A-25)---3 blocks from 41-18774 to 41-18873, and AT-9s in blocks 41-11939 to 41-12279 / 41-5745 to 41-5894 / 42-56853 to 42-57152, so some were Fiscal Year 1942.
The "dots" were no doubt a factory peculiarity.
Regards
Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

No opinion with regard to the dot, but from photos of AT-9/AT-9A later in their career, no dot is visible,
so must have been redone at some stage.
Earliest dated photo is in 1943.

Cheers
Stig

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Hi Stig. Is this one of the photos (Jan. 1943) on the St. Louis line; both aircraft are second in production but different Fiscal years.

As you say at some point in the last AT-9 and A-25 blocks they deleted the "dot"; the latest serials I've seen with them are 42-57061 (AT-9) and 41-18826 (A-25). In the other AT-9 block 41-5850 (near the end) had a standard serial.

https://www.docdroid.com/9tu76LJ/cur...os-pdf#page=13


No big deal but still interesting anomaly.
Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Nick,


I agree with Stig. Write that book. If not, and for others interested, a series of books that include Allied aircraft markings from the PTO.


https://avonmorebooks.com.au/?page=2




Thanks again,
Ed

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Ed thanks for the link, I love a nice profile. Wish I could afford the set.
************
Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Sorry Nick, for late reply.
Been in Tanzania "chasing" animals. No access to either email or TOCH down there due to some snags
created by ourselves.....

Anyway, what I ment with my previous remarks was that some (all?) of the AT-9 which began life with a 1.
plus block number, later in life was repainted with the fiscal year digit 1 and its block number without the dot,
that is the normal way we are used to see it represented.

Cheers
Stig

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Hi Stig. This seems to be a practice on the Curtiss St. Louis line only; for A-25s, AT-9s and C-76s. I don't think the trainer type serials would be re-painted as an order.
The first 2 C-76s as completed (42-86913 / 914) had dots but subsequent ones apparently not.
Incidentally the Fiscal year was added to serials on June 30 1921 ( as on the XCO-6 23-1236) then carried onto Air Corps in 1926.
Regards
Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Well Nick

Since the AT-9 I am talking about came from exactly the same blocks getting the dot the conclusion is
a) They never received the dot in the first place
b) They must have been repainted at some point, without the dot.

Cheers
Stig

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

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Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Ed. Photo 1 is 44-87640 ( there is a better photo on Flickr showing this, also the Block 85-BW and 11 bombs)-- 462BG on Tinian late in the war ( 44-87641 flew 11 missions before the end).
The 1st "Iron George" was 44-27340, earlier. Presumably the other 2 are the same Group. "George" may be a crew name but it was the usual name for the Autopilot on board.


Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Thank you Nick.

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

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Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Hi Ed. I can't remember the serial at the moment but I'm pretty sure it's 93BG (and she has the Douglas-style of anti-glare panel) and interesting colours.........
Yellow face with 63-mission bomb marker, red nose turret, lips and tongue, a small Texas longhorn bull behind the face; very similar "face" style in the 448th, 458th and 308th BGs.
Sadly scrapped in the US post-war.


Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Hi Ed. I don't know if you are interested in such things like me but this has the features of an early Douglas-built B-24J ( J-1-DT or 5-DT) from 42-51226 to 42-51395.
Sloping bombardier's window (unbraced) with small window behind.
Rounded side window above.
High pitot tube.
Unpainted finish.
Douglas anti-glare panel style, over pitot.
Nose-wheel door down.
Emerson nose turret.
There was a very similar one in the 389BG but with several detail differences (probably an "H").
There is a very clear colour photo of the one in your photo in a scrapyard in the US, the caption says in Albuquerque NM but only the nose is visible. Also she is in a take-off photo of the 93BG on May 20 1945.


Nick

Re: American aircraft photos 8 - 12
 

Hi Nick,


Thank you for that detailed reply. I have little knowledge of American aircraft, preferring to study German types. However, I'm sure the info you provided will be appreciated by those who study American aircraft.


Best,
Ed