LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

Good morning for all.

Am just reading "The Road to Arnhem" by Donald R. Burgett, who mentions that on the night of 19th/20th September 1944, the LW launched an attack on Eindhoven with some 100+ machines, which the author mentions as being JKu 87 and Ju 88.

Between pgs.82-83, the author do mention that a FLARE stuck to the bomb-bay of one of the bombers, who was pursued by Allied anti-aircraft fire and searchlights, but the bomber managed to escape.

I am aware of the units invovled thanks to this previous post at Toch down here:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...ndhoven&page=2

My question, therefore is to know IF, there is the record for a DAMAGED machine that matches this report or remembrance of Donald R. Burgett?

It may have been a "Pathfinder" unit, so probably KG 66.

Is there the record of a damaged Ju 88 S or T that returned back with the ignited Flare on the belly or whose crew had to bail out due to the fire on their belly? This surely would be the machine described by the Parachute (Screaming Eagle) veteran on his memories.

According to Burgett, the LW achieved a real victory that night, bombing several British vehicles on the town.

Adriano

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

This is the book:
https://books.google.com.br/books/ab...cC&redir_esc=y

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

OBS: typpo of my part on Jku 87 > Stuka (Ju 87) as mentioned on pg.87 of the above quoted biography.

According to writer and veteran, the bombing lasted for more than 1 hour.

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

Quoting the British translation of the Luftflotte 3 diary (TNA AIR 20/7704):

"78 aircraft of Fliegerkorps IX (no longer under Luftflotte 3 command) set out to make a concentrated attack on Eindhoven. A Do 217 crashed soon after take-off, the crew were killed. 75 aircraft carried out the attack, 1 aircraft attacked a secondary target, and another broke off."

The Do 217 was the only loss apart from a reconnaissance Me 410 (probably of 1.(F)/121).

The Ju 87s of NSGr. 2 were operating against the Maastricht area, as were III./KG 51's Fw 190s.

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

...and if damaged with no crew casualties, very little chance of this being recorded

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

Chris, but as far as I have seen on this Board, some of the DAMAGED machines (more than 40%, do not remember the % by hear now) were recorded on the NVM or General Quarter List, weren't they?

I thought, maybe wrongly, that a DAMAGE report would have survived, with the % informed. Have read some of those down here, but maybe the % of the mentioned machine was less than 40%, so, not recorded....

NICK: The information about NSGr.2 and KG 51's Fw 190 are most welcomed. Thank you very much indeed.

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

OBS: by heart.

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

I do quote some PARTS from the mentioned literature:

"A flare stuck in the bomb-bay door of one of the German bombers. The brightly lit bomber moved accross the night sky. We could see it very clearly from the ground."..."We watched in awe as the plane kept flying through a sky filled with tracers and bursting Flak."..."We watched disappointedly until it was out of sight. It never did fall."

Maybe the crew managed to release the Flare which lit on the bomb-bay, at least....and survived the hail of AA and trip back home....

A.

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

NVMs are for crew casualties and do usually list aircraft details. Quartermaster General's Returns for 1944 were apparently lost in an air raid

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

That settles the matter and my doubts/querry, sadly.
I was just curious to match what the 101st Airborne Veteran had seen...

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

The German-language of the Luftflotte 3 diary for September 1944 is available on the Canadiana Héritage website as reel T-2417, starting at frame 300. The section I quoted is at frame 439.

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

NICK, my gratitude for sharing the link of this INCREDIBLE document with me and probably others who did not know it.

It is a "helluva" of a document. Am really astonished and happy to read it.

Again, my most sincere GRATITUDE for sharing this.

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

A better copy (scan direct from original) is available at Freiburg through Invenio. Signatur RL 7-3/580

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

John, thank you. Am still learning how to use INVENIO. Am a slow and low student yet...but so far I have found it rather not too friendly, but efficient though. I shall have a careful look at what you suggest. My gratitude for that.

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

Yes, thanks John, even if finally having a copy that’s easy to read almost feels like cheating!

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

Hi Adriano,

This must be your lucky day ;) Yes there is a record, the story is completely true! As told to me by the pilot in question himself and recorded in his Flugbuch: Having taken off from Fliegerhorst Dedelstorf at 19:20 hrs, Fw. Harry Wende (FF) , Uffz. Paul Trunt (BO) and Uffz. Heinz Lunow (BF) were flying in Ju 88 S-3 Z6+HL of 3./KG66 above Eindhoven when their aircraft was hit in the bomb bay by FLAK (i.e. Allied AAA). One of the LC50 Leuchtbomben (sky marker flares) ignited, but because it was stuck, the crew was not able to jettison it and the LC50 started to burn through the fuselage structure. "Burning like a comet" (quote Harry Wende) they barely made it to Münster-Handorf, where the inevitable crash landing followed at 21:25 hrs. According to Fw. Wende, when one of the groundcrews at Münster-Handorf later inspected the airframe, he almost fainted: The fire had almost completely consumed the frames..

Hope this helps,

Marcel

PS The Besatzung Wende survived the war

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

Marcel,

I was 100% sure that YOU would match this one....since from what I had read, the Ju 88 could only be from KG 66.

Do you want me to send you the full relevant passage? There are more on the text of the 101st Airborne Division memories that is interesting. I quoted only 2-3 sentences...

Maybe this will be useful for you. THANK YOU immensely Marcel, for matching 100% the story I read onto this book. Just finished it last weekend. So now, thanks to you, we do know what really happened and how lucky the Feldwebel Wende's crew were!!!!! Since ALL the AAA in town was trying to hit and shot him down!

I shall send you the full text, ok?

Adriano

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

Hi Adriano,

Yes, please do! It would be wonderful to show both sides of the conflict.

Thanks in advance,

Marcel

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

Addition:

I./KG66 had a second close shave on the Eindhoven raid that night: Ju 88 S-3 Z6+CL of the Besatzung Lieske also barely made a crash landing at Dedelstorf after suffering from an engine fire in flight. (Don't know yet how far they got into the mission.)

A few weeks ago a photo series showing the recovery ("Bergung") of this aircraft was sold at Ebay: https://www.ebay.nl/itm/125490362528...&segname=11010

PS If anybody bought this set (or knows who bought it), please send me a PM.

Regards,

Marcel

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

Hello Marcel.

I shall do that Marcel + the full image when scanned, be sure of that.

At 756 Euros for the set, the new owner must be a millionaire amongst us....I thought of you when I saw those "Polka Dots Ju 88 S" images selling...Maybe the new owner give you a hand and help in the futur.

Is it know if the fire in the engine was due to enemy AAA fire or malfunction of the engine, poor-handling, etc.? They were very lucky indeed as well as the first crew you mentioned, who got a flare hunging up on the bomb-bay, litting all the sky up and being chased by ALL the AAA fire on town....

I shall return to you very soon. Thank you again for matching those facts and wish you all the luck and success you deserve onto KG66's History. We are surely awaiting the release of this work.

Adriano

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

Thanks a lot for the kind words Adriano! Much appreciated.

Marcel

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

A surprsingly brief report on the attack from the 21st Army Group TAC HQ Log can be found here (see paragraph 5):

https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...reel_t2430/201

Re: LW losses night 19/20th September 1944 - attack to Eindhoven?
 

Thanks Nick, great addition!

Regards,

Marcel