Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Hey guys,

I am looking for information on a Do217 that was shot down over the UK.

Supposedly shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942.

Pilot was an Oberfeldwebel Anton Howick(?).

Last name does not seem German. Could be an error, and that is the crash location.

Thoughts?

TIA

Mike

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

144 Sqn was on Hampdens in 1942?

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

I have gone through my list of Do 217 losses and put in the name Anton and Howick-nothing matches

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

This will have been a 141 Squadron Beaufighter night kill (i.e. greatest likelihood). You need a date, or even a month, and ideally some location information to get a better fix.
Again on probabilities, John Braham would be a distinctly likely 141 Sqn candidate for the victor. Suggest check out the Wikipedia page on him which has a fairly detailed chronicle of his aerial victories. (No Antons listed there that are associated with Do 217s but its a start.)
PS And then - if the effort is justified - you could work through the 141 Sqn 1942 ORBs for possible mentions of likely kill crash sites. (These are still free to download from UK NA providing you log in.) Then of course there are also the Combat Reports ...

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Braham did not come to 141 Sqn until Dec 42 and his first claim for a 217 was not until 20-21 Jan 43. My incomplete listing of claims for 141 Sqn show claims in February and June 1942 but no Ofw Anton Howick

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Thanks, Chris. So Braham is out.
I took a quick look through Nigel Parker but the only Do 217 pilot with Anton in his name that I spotted was WNr. 4314, U5+KT lost 3-Jan-43. However, it was AA that did for him.
Parker gives the crash site as Out Newton but right by that village lie Holmpton and Hollym. Either might have become corrupted. Probably reaching for straws now ...

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Thanks guys...

I will try to see if there is any more info, or some names getting crossed.

Mike

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

And in case any of these might help, the basic details for this Anton are:

Do 217 E-4, WNr. 4314 (from Dornier-Wismar)
U5 + KT of 9./KG 2,
Target: Hull docks (4 x SC 250 + incendiaries) Lost 100% ni 03./04.01.1943 with
(FF) Uffz Anton Ries PoW
(BO) Ogfr Horst Küster PoW
(BF) Uffz Arno Salz PoW
(BM) Uffz Alfred Muschiol PoW

References are Balke:KG2 Band II, Table p.448 & with even more detail Nigel Parker: Lw Crash Archive Vol 10 p.1149

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Thanks for the info.

My feeling is the "Howick" is maybe the loss area (and the person giving me the info got confused). The only thing is Howick is pretty far from Hull. :(

Did it say where that specific Do217 went down?

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

That crash site locations piece was in post #6 above, Mike.
Parker gives it as Out Newton right by Spurn Head, but very nearby lie the villages of Holmpton and Hollym. It is just possible that either might have become corrupted to Howick - if you squint and really strain.

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

He guys,

Soooooooooo...

On the back of the Postcard Photo (of the pilot who supposedly was shot down), written in Pencil is "KG2", along with basic award details.

The name the person wrote is shown in this image:

Looks like "Anton Horwick", but 100% is it not the well-known Ace (different unit).

Does anyone else read something different? Morweck, Morwick, etc.?

Have not been able to find much with my limited info.

https://axis-militaria.com/wp-conten...815_044831.jpg

TIA

Mike

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Sorry still nobody lost with KG 2 or any other Geschwader on Do 17 and Do 217s with this name or vaguely like this name

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

That is what I thought... :(

Thanks guys.

Mike

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Is there possibly a pilot who served with a similar name (not KG2 related?)

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

The section of post card shown has A/G R/Op at the top does this indicate his aircrew status rather than him being a pilot ?

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

totally could be. Right now looking for anyone close to that. I guess I assumed pilot, but yes, this could be his position for sure.

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Here is the full postcard.

Based on the badge, it appears he is a radio operator.

https://axis-militaria.com/wp-conten...007-scaled.jpg

https://axis-militaria.com/wp-conten...943-scaled.jpg

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Perhaps somebody later wrote the name Ofw. Anton Horwick on t because he thought it was the same guy? There is some resemblance but I do not think it is him.

So, this might be somebody totally else? Where did this picture came from?

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

If as John says the photo has a resemblance to Ofw Anton Horwick RK DKiG Spanish Cross could it be a wrongly named brother who survived the war ?

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Yes Horwick was KG 2 and KG 3 but this is not him and I can see no resemblance between the photo and photos of Hoerwick. Maybe a ploy by the seller to bump up the price? Where did 144 Sqn come from??

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

The writing on the back appears to be manipulated. Sadly. I've seen a lot of handwriting from the period and this does not pass muster.

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

I never said the handwriting was period. It was added by someone after the war to help record / ID the person in the image. It also appears to me that the name was added later than the other 2 lines above. I suspect anywhere between the 1950s and 1990s.

For sure it is not the famous Anton Horwick...so maybe the person who wrote it got confused.

Basically, some Do217 Relics were on auction recently out of the UK. The listing stated they came from a Do217 that was shot down over the UK by 144 Squadron.

I suspect all that is true.

However, also included was this postcard, with the consignor indicating that it came from this person's Do217 (with the name Anton Horwick on the back).

I suspect the image has nothing to do with the Do217 loss, and things got swapped out or something.

Out of curiosity, how many Do217s were shot down by 144 Squadron? Based on the aircraft they were flying, I suspect not many?

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

As far as I can see, 144 Sqn never met or shot down a Do 217. Flying Hampdens until Jan 43, it then flew Beaufighters in anti-shipping role in the North of Scotland and Do 217s were rare in that part of the world

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Has anyone tried uploading to Google for a reverse image search? That might tell you if it has ever been identified as anyone else.

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Mike , was there a location or date of the crash included in the description of these relics . Skimming through the losses in the Ulf Balke book there are only a few KG 2 losses with an Ofw. Bf onboard . Of these there is one near Kings Lynn on the 23/24.8.1942 shot down by 25 Sqd and another a bad weather crash at Goathland Yorkshire on 17/18.12.1942 . Are either of these dates or locations mentioned .

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Hey guys,

Sadly, there were no dates mentioned. :( I have reached out to the seller again, for more info. Awaiting a reply.

I tried doing a search with Google Lens, but came up empty.

Mike

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

"reverse image search"? That's new to me. How does it work?

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

I've never tried it, just heard about it. but here are the instructions: https://support.google.com/websearch...form%3DDesktop

Or:

https://uk.pcmag.com/mobile-phones/7...rom-your-phone

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Thanks Nick.

Re: Do217 Loss info needed - shot down by 144 Squadron in 1942
 

Ja...that is pretty much what I did. :(