Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

Does anyone know more about a disastrous bombrun of a Zerstörer-Gruppe towards Oder-bridges in 1945? I read that a whole Gruppe was shot down by Mustangs. Acc. to my source, only one plane (!) escaped. After that, it was planned to integrate this "Gruppe" into JG54.

Which Gruppe, what details on this mission like Mustangs-unit, their claims etc. are known?

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

Hello Yogibär,

the story you read does contain a lot of "Fliegerlatein".

II./ZG 76 converted in December 1944 to Fw 190A-8 at Großenhain. Early February 1945 the unit was renamed III./JG 54.

On 22.03.45 the group had a bitter clash with Mustangs in the Strausberg - Eggersdorf area. Out of a total of 36 planes 6 were shot down with the pilot dead, one further aircraft crashed after returning to the base at Eggersdorf.

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

II./ZG 76 was renamed III./JG 54 in end February 1945 (on the 27th), the former III./JG 54 having become IV./JG 26 two days before.

As for a disastrous mission, it is fairly possible that only one pilot returned to the group's base, while the other landed on the first base they found. Histories of JG 26 and JG 4 are full of battles ending like that with only a small portion of AC returning to base, but most of the "missing" AC not being really lost.

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

Thanks, so it was II/ZG76.

They got their Fw in December 1944, and were renaemd III/JG54 in Feb45. So at least that mission was flown with Fockes, not with 410's. Nice to know.

Maybe we can still find out more about this specific Jabo-attack?

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

II/ZG76 became the "reestablished" IV/JG54 in the spring of 1945. It was never under the control of JG54 but Jagddivision in Bad Saarow. More then 15 planes carrying 250 kg bombs were shot down by Mustangs attacking the Oder bridges and positions in the area of Goeritz-Lebus.

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

Aaah... Thanks! Means, my source seems reliable and the data in www.ww2.dk is sometimes not. Nokose, do you know which USAAF fighter group was/were involved and on which date this happened?

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

I can't give you any help there. My information came out of JG54 by w.Held, H.Trautloft and E. Bob. It has to be March or April 45. This last "IV" Gruppe was short lived being disband in April 45.

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

Hello, guys.

Although I am not an expert I do believe something is wrong here.

My information states that the III./J.G.54 (the old one) were redesignated IV./J.G.26 in the end of February 1945, while the II./Z.G.76 became a new III./J.G.54 in the beginning of February 1945. So in theory one would have an overlapping period where both units used the same designation.

Looking at the loss records, there is a distinct change in the turn of the month between January and February 1945 when the losses of FW 190D-9's stop, and FW 190A-8's appear in the loss listings for III./J.G.54. Also - at the same time IV./J.G.26 starts reporting FW 190D-9's.

II./Z.G.76 reports a Me 410 lost on 27.01.1945, the last entry I have for this unit.

In my opinion this is a clean cut case.

II./Z.G.76 -> III./J.G.54 (approx 01.02.1945)
III./J.G.54 -> IV./J.G.26 (approx 01.02.1945)

And I think we should keep the IV. Gruppe out of this, they were not involved at all I believe and were in fact redesignated II./J.G.7 during the first week of February 1945. I do not know if the 'new' IV./J.G.54 supposedly led by Schloßstein were in action at all, at least they reported no aircraft losses in the reporting period 01.02.1945 through 01.04.1945.

Best regards,
Andreas B

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

The IV was disbanded in Feb 45 because of losses and the remaining members transfered to JG7. The Fw190's that the second IV had were not D's but appear to be A'S in the pictures of Hrabak and Schlossstein.

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

Andreas, You were right about the II/ZG76 being converted into the III/JG54 in Feb45 but the old III/JG54 still existed. It was causing problems with the quartmaster who was getting losses from both III, one for Fw190 D-9's and the other for Fw 190 A-8's. They may have had a switch of Gruppe numbers to stop this problem in March 45. The old II/ZG76 in there FW190A's appear to be in the Ost front area of service after there conversion.

III./JG 54 (II./ZG 76)
 

Hello guys

I am glad that this thread has begun to discuss the existence of the "new" III./JG 54 formed after the redesignation of the "old" III./JG 54 as IV./JG 26. I have been interested in this unit for some time but information is hard to come by. A while ago I was lucky enough to come by the following link to the French translation of The Luftwaffe im Focus Special Nr. 2. http://www.luftfahrtverlag-start.de/...anzoesisch.pdf On page 4, when discussing Photo 4, it has a paragraph describing the setting up of the "new" III./JG 54. From what I understand, II./ZG 76 was redesignated III./JG 54 on 18 February 1945. However, it was not until 25 February 1945 that the "old" III./JG 54 was redesignated IV./JG 26. Thus, for seven days there were two Gruppen known as III./JG 54! To avoid confusion, the "new" unit was listed as III./JG 54 (II./ZG 76) during this time. This is a dramatic example of the confusion and disintegration of the Luftwaffe at this time of the war. Note that according to the article, there has been much confusion of this "new" III./JG 54 with IV./JG 54, which was redesignated II./JG 7 in February 1945, by some authors that mistake the one unit for the other. I hope that my interpretation of the information included in the article is correct and would more than welcome any comments.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

Only the 78FG under Landers had a single day like that in March and it was 19 March 1945 -35 109s/190s incl a couple of Ar 234's near Osnabruck.

Can't find any 410's shot down on 22 March by any group in 8th, nor can I find a lot of scores for the 354FG in the 9th AF.

Regards,
Bill

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

Bill, Did the 78th shoot down any of these in the Oder River area? I suspect that not all these went to Mustangs as the VVS was building up in that area. JG11, JG3 and other units were heavy into bombing these bridgehead bridges in the attempt to keep the Russia army from getting units across between Feb-April. I know that we have had posts discussing ID mistakes between the allies in this area so both sides knocking down these Fw190A's is possibly what happen.

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

With other words, you mean the american plane covers the soviet troops ? IIRC Lebus and other Oder bridgeheads was captured in februar and the western allied and soviet has precised defined operation zones.
Why were US dispatch to this area ?

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

The USAAF along with the RAF were still bombing Berlin almost up to the time that the Russians were moving in. I believe these were free hunt missions from the escorts and not actual bridge top cover.

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

Nokose - Every one was referenced as 'Osnabruck' area so who knows?

The interesting thing is if it was VVS I suspect that some of the survivors would have noted the difference... but I doubt that USAAF was flying 'air cover' over the River Oder in late March - already the 'friendly fire' issues were cropping up with Soviets

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

22Mar45 4FG while on escort observed approx 15 FW-190A-8's laden with bombs. They attacked in the Eggersdorf/Furstenwalde area. The Mustangs of the 4FG accounted for 11 and 2 probables (Lt Col Sidney Woods claimed 5). Over Seelow 4 La-7's of the 176 GIAP observed approx 30 bomb laden FW-190's that they attacked. Ivan Kozhedub claimed 2, Dmitrii Titareno 1, Alexandr Kumanichkin 1 and Vladiimir Gromakovskii 1.
The JG54 homepage has listed 7 FW-190A-8's of the "III" as 100% and 2 damaged. 5 KIA and 1 MIA (Bob says the info is incomplete but he will be updating.)

Re: Me410-carnage over Oder 1945
 

Yes, that 22.03. attack by 4th FG fits:
-Date and area are OK
- Only 2 survivors on german side

So, it was already after the reequipment of the Ex-Zerstörers, and the error is all mine. I thought, the carnage had taken place before reorganizing, and that was wrong (see title). Good to know that Mr. Hannig's memories are correct.

Thank you, Nokose!