Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

During the early afternoon of 17 May 1943 331 Squadron claimed to have shot down two Fw 190s north of Guernsey. I'd be grateful for any details of the two aircraft, and wonder if either pilot survived.

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

Loss reports for the period 3 May–2 June are onlne (free and downloadable) at the Bundesarchiv in file RL 2-III/1189: https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/main.xhtml

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

Much obliged Nick.

Brian

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

5./JG 2 lost 2 x Bf 109 G-6s north of Morlaix on this day but I can see no Fw 190s

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

Thank you for the correction, Chris.

The combat reports of the actions are at pages 68 and 69 of 198 of https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/C2504369 . (Appendices
to the 331 Squadron ORB). Both reports describe the combats as taking place north of the Channel Islands and Luftwaffe aircraft crashing into the sea. Although these are described as Fw 190s I can appreciate how the mis-identification might have occurred.

Brian

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

I wonder if those losses are related to Ramrod 66 the previous day.

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

Various sources say 17 May 43 Franek

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

I see, but is not it possible that the error generated from a single report that was then multiplied? Of course if there are losses that could be associated to Ramrod 66 my comment is irrelevant.

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

Reports were rendered by two 331 Sqn pilots flying as part of Circus 29 on the 17th, Franek. Time of action 1300 BST.

Brian

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

The problem is Morlaix is nowhere near Channel Islands. There were clashes over Morlaix, but on 16.

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

The Summary of Events/Record of Events for 331 Squadron record the action as taking place on the 17th while the squadron was providing cover for Fortress bombers. Morlaix is approximately 95 miles/150 km southwest of the action. Chris, at #4, describes the Bf 109 losses as being north of Morlaix.

Brian

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

German records for 17th make mention of B-17s. Bit of a puzzle what they thought they shot down on 16 May as 8./JG 2 had one loss while the 263 Sqn claims were 2 x Fw 190s from NAGr 13 (which were undamaged). I believe that Lt Wilhelm Godt of 8./JG 2 damaged a 412 Sqn Spitfire on 16th

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

II./JG 2 lost four Bf 109s that day. One was without enemy contact. The other three were lost when trying to combat an enemy bomber incursion. Description in WASt will be helpfull:

Uffz Werner Grunding, 5th/JG 2, WIA
Startetd 17.5.43 to defend against an enemy bomber formation
Crashed near Croissenville (sic)

Lt. Günther Krus, 5./JG 2, KIA
Started 17.5.43 to defend against an enemy bomber formation
Fw Bosseckert observed impact on sea 100 km N Morlaix

Lt. and Staffelführer Lothar Werner, 5./JG 2, KIA
Started on 17.5.43 to defend against an enemy bomber formation.
Crash 100 km N Morlaix. No further observations.

Carl

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

Much obliged Carl, that amplifies Chris's #4 nicely. Do you know which airfield 5th/JG 2 was flying from that day? I've attempted to work it out myself from various online sources but have had to admit defeat.

Brian

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

Slight problem with Lt. Günther Krus as his records appear incomplete:

1. Unless I'm doing something wrong he does not appear to be listed by the Aircrew Remembered website. https://aircrewremembered.com/Kracke...rch_type=fuzzy

2. There is a brief entry for him in the Luftwaffe Officer Career Summaries, but that does not provide a date for his death (https://www.ww2.dk/Lw%20Offz%20-%20G-K%20Apr%202023.pdf)

Lt. and Staffelführer Lothar Werner, 5./JG 2 is recorded on both websites.

Brian

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

Kruss (and being a Lt the career summary rarely gores to that rank) and 5 St5affel was Beaumont Le Roger but could have been forward based

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

As ever my thanks, Chris.

Brian

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

NVM reports the name of this Flugzeugführer and also of his father like "Krus". Above the pilots name is a small handwritten "Krauß" (not "Kruss"), a very common German name. Prien and all. use "Krauß" in their losslists.

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

Many thanks, Carl, that worked beautifully. I did not imagine when I wrote the first post of this thread how much information I would gather, thank you everyone who has helped, I am very grateful.

Brian

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

I have him as Krauß too

Lt. Günther Krauß, geb. 08.11.1919, MIA 17.5.43
Lt. Lothar Werner, geb. 03.07.1921, MIA 17.5.43

Both were never recovered as far as I know.

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

Thank you for the confirmation, John.

Brian

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

Well, if it is 100 km N of Morlaix, then it is a different story. Thanks.

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

And finally there is an image of Lt. and Staffelführer Lothar Werner at http://aufhimmelzuhause.com/id88.htm .

Brian

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

To be clear, I am not 100% sure the name is Krauß. You would need to check his birth records to be sure.

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

John,

The entry for Krus in the Luftwaffe Officer Career Summaries gives the same birth date as the date you quote for Krauß, 8/11/1919, so I think it unlikely they are different men.

Brian

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

It is the same person, but it is not 100% sure if the name is Krus or Krauss. Original sources differ, so you need to go back to family records to be 100% sure.

Re: Claims for two Fw 190s destroyed 17 May 1943
 

In NVM, the father's place of residence is given as "Stürzelburg am Rhein". There is no such village but there is a "Stürzelberg", which lies on the Rhine and has since been incorporated into the village of Dormagen. "Krus" is a relatively rare surname in Germany (43 people are listed in the telephone directory). Nevertheless, a married couple "Krus" is listed in the telephone directory for Dormagen. Could "Krus" be correct?