Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Hello,

Can anyone help with the Werk-Nr. on this data plate and confirm what aircraft it likely came from...?

I was told it was likely a He-111, but some other opinions would be much appreciated.

https://i.postimg.cc/7YxbdmWj/400455...13895233-n.jpg

Cheers...

Chris

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Vereinigte Deutsche Metallwerke (VDM) are best known for propellers, I think, while "Sachnr. 9-1113/…" suggests an engine (engines were "9-…", airframes were "8-…").

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Thank you for your reply.

That would be correct as this is a spinner from a crashed bomber.

So there is no specific way of telling which aircraft type this would have come from...?

As I said in my initial post, it said likely from a He-111 but I wanted to see if others could be more certain based on the data plate.

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

The VDM data plate has nothing to do with a specific aircraft.

You will need to figure out which aircraft type P/N 9-1137.30 fits. It may fit various aircraft.

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Ahh, thanks for the clarification...

Is there a website or book that has more details on serial numbers for Luftwaffe parts and aircraft etc...?

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

9-1137.30 is the kind of numbering vdm uses.
He111p has 9.11 137 A luftschraube gerat nummer. And 9-11 137.30 is the haube.

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Thank you for the additional information.

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

I have some more images... Now that I have the spinner in hand, it clearly is not from a He-111 as it is smaller than the He-111 spinner that I already had (RED).

Not sure if anyone has any further info to add as far as what aircraft this smaller one could be from...?

https://i.postimg.cc/3xG6rK85/Sp-Compare.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/26tFBZGH/Data-Plate-Sp2.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/q75j2SMX/thumbnail-IMG-2003.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/fRHKhpXn/Sp-Internal.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/fRkdYL3p/thumbnail-IMG-2004.jpg

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

The he111 did have different spinners per version


See for yourself https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...-bomber.42162/

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Thank you for the link, it is very much appreciated.

There were certainly quite a few different ones.

The different scale is still hard to believe however, although not impossible.

The smaller spinner fits inside the larger...

I will see what further research I can do.

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

I have the VDM document. This 9-11137.30 is listing for the He111 E, H-1, H-2, H-3 and P models. I didn't find it listed for any other aircraft.

In the document, the 30 follows a dot and not a slash.

Tony

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Amazing! Many thanks for this additional information.

It is just hard to grasp that such different sizes were used on the same aircraft type. Even with the images showing them in that other thread.

Cheers...

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Incidentally, here is the data plate from the larger RED spinner.


https://i.postimg.cc/RqxnTgZG/thumbnail-IMG-2002-1.jpg

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

I will see if I can find this in the VDM documents.

Tony

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

And I made a mistake on my initial report. The 9-11137.30 fits on the He111 H3, H4, and H5, and the P models. Not on the E, H1 and H2.

The H3-H5 is fitted with a Jumo 211D

The P has a DB601A.

Sorry for the confusion. Had to review 3 separate documents ( 1939, 1941, 1944) and a single page were wrapped over two pages.

I will continue to review that other data plate number.

Tony

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

So far scans of all 3 documents (1939, 1941, 1944) have produced nothing for the red spinner data plate. A .30 certainly is attributed to spinners (Haube), but there is not a single one that begins with the '210'.

I've searched the documents for 24.30 and 210 and got nothing. The spinner was repainted and it appears that the data plate rivets are original, so it must have been masked when painting.

In the document and on the spinners of NASM Fw190, He219 and Bf109, the spinner data plate is next to the slot where the tool is placed to release the locking ring for removal of the spinner. I don't see the slot in the red spinner.

Is it possible to have some images of the inside of the spinner as well as the tool slot?

Regards,

Tony

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Flugzeugmuster
He111H-3 & He111H-5

Motormuster
Jumo 211 D

Luftschrauben gerat nr
9-11170 A

Flugel
9-11170.11
9-11170.13

Nabe
9-11081.26
9-11081.25

haube
9-11137.30


Mike

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Here is a pic of the release slot in relation to the position of the data plate, both external and internal views. You can see the rivets for the data plate on the internal pic.

Last pic is of course the overall pic of the internal's.

https://i.postimg.cc/G2Hwh6PM/thumbnail-IMG-2078.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/3rk4PRGG/thumbnail-IMG-2082.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/h4Qv2YFb/thumbnail-IMG-2084.jpg

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Thanks Max. I was looking at some images I have of the NASM Bf109G spinner and it made me realize that this red spinner is large, and similar. One difference is that there are flush rivets on the G that extend up to the joint on each side of a prop blade opening and they don't exist on the red spinner.

The VDM document I have only has data as far as the Bf109G. I thought maybe it could possibly be for a K but now the new image shows no hole large enough for a cannon.

What other aircraft would have a large spinner like the 109 and be a late war development, in light of a distinct higher Haube Nummer.

Tony

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

ME 210/410

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

That was my thinking also.... Or Me110.....?

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

On the contrary, thank you Tony for helping me out and checking on the serial numbers for me. Very much appreciated.

I would discount this one from being off a single engine fighter as you have already pointed out, the central hole is neither large enough nor does it have the flared rim that the Me109s had to accomodate the nose cannon.

I am leaning towards a twin engine fighter perhaps.

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Mike,

I did consider that when performing my research, especially since the '210' is in the 'Gerat Nr.' of the data plate. I looked at all the data for the 110, 210, and 410 in the documents.

Here they are:

110 DB601A,N 9-11081.30

110 DB605F 9-12078.34 9-12078.30

210 DB605A 9-12078.34 9-12078.30

410 DB603D 9-12141.35

410 DB603A 9-12102.35

Nothing close, but as Max states, it probably fits best on at least a twin engine spinner.

Steve Sheflin helped with the Hersteller:

FAK = "MAD" Machinenfabrik u. Apparatebauanstalt, Darmstadt, Ing. P.R. Schmittmann Schmittmann & Co. Inh. A. Küchler, Darmstadt [H]

Last, I'm going to see if I can dig aournd and obtain the data plate numbers on the 410 in storage at NASM Silver Hill. Hopefully our UK contributors can visit the Me110 and Me410 on display and see what they can learn about their spinners.

Tony

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Hi Tony,

Once again, many thanks for your efforts in helping me research what A/C this came from.

I had emailed a friend of mine who works in WWII aircraft restoration, but I had not received any replies from him as yet, so will see if I can dig up further info as well.

Cheers...

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

I took some additional images of the smaller spinner of the internals.

Given that the front is all smashed in, it is hard to tell what type or size hole there is at the tip of the spinner, although you can see the rolled over edge from these images.

https://i.postimg.cc/DzZkYqH0/Smaller-Spinner.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/j2Y1KNgz/Smaller-Spinner-2.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/xdR8LyHd/Smaller-Spinner-3.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/jdMr6g3m/Smaller-Spinner-4.jpg

There is also no slot or access hole as per the RED spinner to allow access for tooling to remove / tighten the spinner.

A friend I know who works on restoring Luftwaffe aircraft initially said he thought it looked like it was from a fighter, but he followed that up with another email by saying that he was unsure what type.

Well, the waters are a little less muddy than when I started, but to be able to say definitively that it was used on this or that type of aircraft would be great.

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

I found it. In Junkers Propellor documents. All the Junkers props start with the 2, thus the 21024.

They were not VDM, and were produced by Junkers-Verstell-Luftschraben.

This red spinner, 9-21024.30 is listed for a Ju88 A-4, D-1, C-6, fitted with a Jumo 211 J.

I should be able to learn how the smashed spinner was removed. I need to peruse through 18 separate manuals.

More to come.

Tony

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

Max, the slot for mounting and removing the spinner from the crushed He111 spinner was on the back plate of the spinner, which mounted directly to the hub. That's why you couldn't visualize it.

I wish I knew how to add photos for this site. I have had many that I could display. In the old version of this website, it was easy. Now I need some https link.

Regards,

Tony

Re: Serial Number - Aircraft ID help!!!
 

One word...."AMAZING"... Many thanks!

The seller of the RED spinner had it listed as a Ju88 spinner, but I was then told (incorrectly it appears) that they were wrong and that it was actually from a He-111.

I have two nice vertical stabiliser Swaz panels from Ju88's as well as some other parts, so that is nice to know that it is most likely from a Ju88 afterall.

I gather the smaller, crushed spinner is still most likely from a He-111...?

Incidentally, I forgot that I had this nice cardboard advertising poster for VDM which I think is appropriate to show in this thread.


https://i.postimg.cc/hjmCHqXG/thumbnail-IMG-6969.jpg



Btw, I use a photo upload website called - POSTIMAGE - where it is super quick to upload images and then you just copy the direct link http path and paste that into
the insert image button that the forum uses. Super easy and quick to use. If you need more of a step by step on how to do the uploads I am happy to help.
...