TOCH Down :(
 

Hi, was quite disappointed when I found this site down earlier. Am Greatly Pleased that it is now back on line again .
Well done to those behind the screens that keep it up to date and safe.
👏👏👏

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Same here - I noticed I couldn't access it the other night and also just an hour ago? Was it maintenance?

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Such things happen?

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Welcome back. Very odd that two breakdowns in so short of time. But so glad the forums are now back up again.
Hope nothing more goes wrong.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Happy to be here again! :-D

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Don’t rejoice too soon.
I’ve managed to get the forum working again by clearing the postindex.
However it may fail soon again because my provider lowered the dbase space.
This is added to the fact that I am running a very old version of vbulletin software, which requires me to use an very old version of PHP and although my provider does offer this at cost it is not ideal.

So it is all about 3 options

1. Continue doing nothing until it breaks
2. Update vBulletin to latest version
3. Migrate to another forum application

Option 2 offers a direct upgrade path, option 3 most likely does not because of the old vBulletin version.

What I don’t understand is the database restriction, will check why they enforce it without the option to pay for extra space.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Thak you Ruy for your detailed reply.
May I offer a possible solution?
Would it be an opportunity to address the membership of perhaps an opportunity to subscribe some sort of financial membership fee ? Or even voluntary contribution to help save and keep the TOCH alive for years to come ?

The membership list shows a total membership of 4,705.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

FWIW,

RAFCommands went through the same pain points - out of date vBulletin (Version 4), PHP was not supported beyond PHP5 and database was limited to 300MB size.

I dragged it out as long as I could, and finally the service provider pulled the plug. Option 2 was the way to go

The caveats around Option 2 - the latest version of VB is v6. the migration from v3 to v6 will be handled by it, but the DB size will increase significantly. I suspect RAFC went from 300MB to 550MB overnight, and once the search indexes were built it was 1.5GB in size. That being said, the extra bells and whistles were worth it.

The old service provider would have charged a packet for a DB of that size - and I figured out that it was easier to simply go for AWS LightSail. its cheap (cheaper than the previous provider), reliable, and the automatic backups gives you peace of mind.

If you really don't want the hassle of worrying about your server - perhaps the vb6 cloud hosting plan is the way to go - but it is a tad expensive.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Hello Ruy,

Glad TOCH is back online. If you're going to update vBulletin to the newset version, you'll also need to get the latest PHP server, which of course incurs extra costs.

I agree with Alex Smart's idea.

Thanks for all your efforts.
Regards René

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Ruy,

Glad to see TOCH back.....lost without it!

Happily agree with both Alex and René regarding contributions.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

I’m looking into a number of actions.
First I need to understand why I am only allowed half of the standard dbase size (1GB instead of 2GB)

Second the upgrade path is relatively clear (at least high level).
PHP upgrade is not a problem, but once I commit there is no way back (AFAIK my provider does not provide a down grade path)

vBulletin 6 offers a direct upgrade from ver 3.7.2 so that is promising.

Funding, that’s another matter, I don’t like to ask for anything unless I have something tangible.

But time wise I’ll be mostly limited to weekends.
So for now I am not touching the indexes anymore, until I have more database space.

The upgrade, if it can be arranged will take some time. I’ll have to buy the license and look into all kinds of details that I last looked into years ago.

So my apologies for the inconvenience.
…but as an absentee “landlord” I need to regain some of that old enthusiasm! :rolleyes:

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Just seen that TOCH is back. Thank you Ruy, you made the right decision 👏 👍
Now so happy that in the future members will be able to see all the information that members over the years have contributed. It would have been a massive historical loss to future generations.
So thank you Ruy 😊

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Ruy,

Thanks very much for all your efforts. It's great to have access to TOCH again!

Your site has been operating reliably for two decades, which is a phenomenal achievement. It's a big relief to know that vBulletin supports direct migration from version 3.7.2 to version 6. I'm hoping that the software upgrade will go smoothly and that the increase in database size won't cause any issues.

However, on the off-chance that things do go badly, I'd just like to offer you and everyone else some reassurance and peace of mind: I made a complete archive of TOCH (i.e. all forums, sub-forums, threads and posts) at the end of January, and I'm currently busy doing another download. My scraper makes a page request every 5 seconds so as not to overload the server, and therefore takes about a week to traverse the entire site. If TOCH should ever go down permanently, I'll make the archive available on a website that I'm working on. The site will also include an archive of the original incarnation of TOCH (1998-2004), as well as other Luftwaffe-related reference data.

Please let me know if you have any concerns or questions.

Best regards,
Leon Venter

p.s. Like many others have offered, I'd gladly contribute to the cost of running TOCH.

Some warning about this site going down?
 

I have noticed significant recent outages here and I do not want to assume anything. Is this maintenance? Server problems? Or something else?


Thank you.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Hi Leon,

Are you able to archive the information on this forum too?

https://lwag.org/forums/

It looks like there is some good information there but the forum is inactive.

Thanks.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Re: https://lwag.org/forums/

I have tried to register but for some reason cannot open the posts ?
Maybe my registration has not been accepted or am I missing something that I should do ?

Re: Some warning about this site going down?
 

Hey Ed,

Check folder OFF TOPIC, more info about the problems regarding our favourite forum. Kind regards

Re: Some warning about this site going down?
 

Sorry, my mistake, its in the folder GENERAL 😏

Re: Some warning about this site going down?
 

Thanks.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

LWAG has not been updated for a long time. It was owned by Richard Eger who passed away. It would be a significant loss if messages posted there cannot be recovered.

In a similar case, the Luftwaffe Experten Message Board (LEMB) contains significant information. I can still access it by using my original log-in. But it effectively closed some years back and exists only as an archive.

Perhaps the owner of TOCH! should consider writing a will to someone who can continue operating the site.*

*Hey, as much as I refuse to admit it, I've gotten just a little bit older. Not by much :)

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Yes, it was a very useful site. The late Richard Eger started LWAG (Luftwaffe Archives & Records Reference Group), and he collaborated with several notable Luftwaffe researchers to compile a vast amount of information from many different sources on the site's discussion board.

I would dearly like to preserve this part of Richard's legacy, but sadly, it doesn't seem possible. The problem is that the site is currently just an empty shell. The only functional parts are the displaying of the home page and the first page of threads in each forum, as well as the first page of the members list. It isn't possible to view the contents of any threads because their links are no longer present, and the 'Search' feature doesn't work. I used to be a member, but the 'Log in' mechanism is broken. Also, the 'Register' and 'Contact Us' features have been disabled.

This is all a bit puzzling because someone is still paying for the domain name and hosting fees, and the site's database obviously still contains at least some thread and member data. If anyone knows one of the site's administrators (the listed ones are Charles Petrie, Jamie Iverson, and 'Maerlyn'), please let them know that I'd be happy to make an archive of the content and make it publicly & freely available.

In the interest of clarity, I want to be explicit about my motivation for doing this:
I attach great value to the collective knowledge in such forums, and I cannot bear the thought of it being lost. I have benefited greatly from the information contributed by researchers who have spent much time and effort dredging through primary sources, and as an ex-software engineer, this is one way in which I can give back to the community. I respect intellectual property and copyright law, and, where possible, I will always obtain consent before publishing such material. The archives will be hosted free of ads, tracking cookies, or any exploitation of personal or proprietary data. I hope that makes my intentions clear.

Leon Venter

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Hi Leon,

Can you see this?

https://lwag.org/forums/forumdisplay...5a4005e9_f_11/

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Hi Ed,
Yep, that list of thread titles looks really tantalizing, doesn't it? The bummer is that there's no way I've found to access any more content than that. You'll notice that there are no working links to the individual threads or their posts, and you can't get to the second (or any subsequent) page of threads in the forum or do any searches either.

As I mentioned earlier, the site is currently only capable of displaying the home page and the first page of thread titles in each forum -- it's a great pity. So agonizingly close, yet so far away...

Regards,
Leon Venter

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Hi Leon, you’re welcome to archive my www.ghostbombers.com if that fits in with your plans.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Hi Nick,
That would be an honor -- thanks very much for your generous offer. You're a primary example of the contributors to whom I feel indebted.

I will look into how your ghostbombers content can best be accommodated within my site structure, and then write a custom scraper for downloading it. I'll discuss the details with you beforehand and let you know before I start the download process.

Best regards,
Leon Venter

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Did TOCH go down again earlier ?

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Earlier and later...

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Database issue may have been solved - if everything remains stable I might reindex the search table this weekend.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Thanks for your efforts Ruy

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

The reality of online sites is that years of contributions could disappear without notice. Unlike physical books and magazines, which consist of multiple copies, electronic bits are too fragile and subject to the whims of providers. The software running the site for years is no longer acceptable. An upgrade is required. Without action, such as in the case of LWAG, it just disappears as if it never existed. That is either accepted or some action is taken.


I do wonder about the LEMB. I don't know if anyone is looking out for it.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

This week it is up AM, down most of the day then up again late PM. Any prognosis for the future? I do miss it when down and these problems are a disincentive for others

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

With the risk of sounding like an idiot, would it help if the site was "cleaned up"?

How many individuals are looking at old messages? I know a few references are made
to previous discussions but what about skipping everything that is older than let's say
2014?

Cheers
Stig

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

I'd say the main advantage of forums over FB groups etc. are the opportunity of keeping online the old discussions and the ease of finding them. Given that the forum is almost text only, with a rather limited numbers of users the photo upload option, I don't think the database is particularly large.
And I suppose that those who like this place would consider participating in the necessary expenses. Count me in.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Ruy,

Is there any movement on this as it is getting very frustrating.

It is also noticeable that there are fewer users logged in to the site at any one time which suggests that some people may be voting with their feet.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Just to let you know, I like this idea.

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

I would like an explanation. Whatever is going on needs to be fixed.

Best,
Ed West

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

Seems most of the older posts are gone? Last page mid 2023? Jeeezzzz

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

John,

The problem with the internet is this: unless you copied it, it's gone. Forever. Years of research gone. Printed books and magazines remain, but this internet thing has a very big problem. LWAG gone. So, copy whatever it is. The LEMB remains as an archive but for how long?

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

I noticed today John Manrho's post saying that all posts on the main board earlier than mid 2023 are now gone.

I don't know if the earlier messages are still recoverable, but if so I have a suggestion for you Ruy.


Could the earlier posts not be restored as they contain information regarded as useful by board users.


In order to free up memory would it help if instead threads chiefly containing links to ebay photos were deleted, including those posted by myself on the prewar board.I admit I’m not an expert in the technology so possibly the following suggestions would not help, but if they would help I hope you’ll give it your consideration.


If possible deleting posts within these threads up to say six months ago, but if not, delete them entirely.

I would argue that the future information value of these threads is low compared to many lost posts on the main board As an example,not just my posts on the prewar board but also threads started by Snautzer and continued by Ed West, could be pruned or deleted to provide more memory.


Examples being The Luftwaffe Interest and the Captured German Aircraft threads on the main board and the Allied interest thread on the Allied and Soviet board.



Several hundred pages could be saved in this way. Several hundred pages which could be used to restore pages of higher information value, if a restoration is feasible and if the memory saved is worthwhile. As I say, I personally I don’t know the answer to this.

These threads, although enjoyed at the time, now contain hundreds of pages with nothing but outdated ebay links.

I hope this is helpful and constructive.


I’ll close by saying that like other posters here, if a cash contribution would help to provide a better functioning site, I too would be prepared to contribute.


Regards,

Clint

Re: TOCH Down :(
 

I had TOCH go down for me for the last 2 weeks and it finally came back on.