Me109 training unit identification
 

Hey guys ,

I've recently acquired some images brought back by a US serviceman. They were taken in Germany in 1945.

One image features an Me109E that appears to be coded with a "White 45" on the cowling.

Another image feature is an Me109 G6 with a "White 53", I believe

Are there any records of this training unit or airfield?

There are also some images of a JU88 and a glider on the same field.

Mike

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

Hi Mike. Possibly JG.104 ? (formerly JFS.4) formed at Furth in March 43 as Stab. and I.Gruppe, disbanded April 45.There is a photo of a G-12 with a white "40" on the nose and part Stkz.(SJ) visible; SJ+UG / XY and XZ were 109s. Usual style though was a 3-digit yellow number on the fuselage. They used several airfields in the 2 years, all seem to be in Bavaria.

If they were in S. Germany I thought they might be Hungarian as they were moving into Austria and Germany late-war. I've seen a white no.43 on a 109G nose, in woodland with another 109; not Hungarian though.



Regards
Nick

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

Hey Nick!

Here are the images.

I assumed this was a training unit, due to the Me109E "White 46"

Me109 G6 is an outline (maybe blue with white) "51".

Also, some unknown Glider - cannot place it at all.

https://axis-militaria.com/wp-conten...720_072330.jpg

https://axis-militaria.com/wp-conten...720_072322.jpg

https://axis-militaria.com/wp-conten...720_072311.jpg

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

Mike I think the "glider" is a mock-up for ground instruction. The 109G has operational markings ie. spinner spiral and Staffel colour number. There are other 109s and 190s with white 2-digit nose numbers in the 40s-50s . This is White 43 captioned as Lechfeld, also in Bavaria; a different style of "4" to the 109E though.
Lechfeld was occupied by the 4th. Division and used as Airfield R-71. Difficult to ID with no unit emblems but lots of LW aircraft were collected at Lechfeld for subsequent evaluation (not sure they'd be interested in an Me109E though).
Regards
Nick

https://www.flickr.com/photos/farini...7603801462303/

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

The glider is a DFS Kranich II. The Kranich II was one of the most produced and most widely used German twin-seat gliders of the era.

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

Many thanks, a new one on me.

http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/GL/GL-1/118-3.jpg

Nick

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

Also note the Fieseler-type intake on "46". This type of supercharger intake is found mostly (although not exclusively) on the 63 Bf 109 T built by Fieseler, so the machine in the picture *might* be a Bf 109 T instead of a regular E.

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

Ah! very good! I guess I assumed a training unit, as I was unaware of the me109E being used in any front line capacity so late in the war

I suppose this could possibly be Lechfeld (?)

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

Is there any chance the photos might have been taken in Austria? Because in that case, the machines could belong to JG 108, which had somewhat of a habit of putting the numbers on the nose of their aircraft.

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

II./JG108 had DFS Kranich and Grunau Baby training gliders in Austria, 5.St. at Munchendorf (to Feb.) and 6./7./8. St. at Fels-am-Wagram (to March); 2 Me109Gs with white nose numbers were 14 and 11. From Henry's "ww2.dk/Airfields" site and a Russian one I can't remember. The eastern part of Austria was unfortunately occupied by the Soviets.
I believe both gliders were standard in the NSFK.
Nick

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

JG 108 spent its entire existence in Austria, and was gradually disbanded between February and April 1945. Apart from its primary training duties, JG 108 also had an Einsatzschwarm tasked with defense of the industry in the greater Vienna area. The unit used a variety of aircraft, including various subtypes of the Messerschmitt Bf 109 and Focke-Wulf Fw 190, Fiat CR.42, Fiat G.50, Macchi C.200, Macchi C.202 and Siebel Si 204, among others. According to Carlsen & Meyer (2000), the final disposition of the unit was as follows:

- Stab/JG 108: Münchendorf, disbanded 16 April 1945
- I./JG 108: Bad Vöslau, disbanded 25 March 1945
- 1./JG 108: Bad Vöslau, disbanded 25 March 1945
- 2./JG 108: Velm, disbanded 25 March 1945
- 3./JG 108: Wiener Neustadt, disbanded 25 March 1945
- 4./JG 108; ? , disbanded 25 March 1945
- II./JG 108: Münchendorf, disbanded 4 February 1945
- 5./JG 108: Münchendorf, disbanded 4 February 1945
- 6./JG 108: Fels am Wagram, disbanded 19 March 1945
- 7./JG 108: Fels am Wagram, disbanded 19 March 1945
- 8./JG 108: Fels am Wagram, disbanded 19 March 1945

Source:

Carlsen, S. & Meyer, M. 2000. Die Flugzeugführer-Ausbildung der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1935 - 1945. Band II. Fliegerwaffenschulen und Ergänzungsgruppen. Zweibrücken: VDM Heinz Nickel Verlag. 576 pp.

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

Pretty sure it is Germany.

The US Veteran wrote, "Secret Airfield in Germany" on the album page.

I know he was stationed as an 40mm Bofors AA Gunner in the Ardennes in 44/45, as well as Krefeld and Neckarelz

Would Krefeld or Neckarelz have any birds like this?

Mike

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

Only a possibility but a lot of units ended up at Bad Aibling in Bavaria as they ran out of places to retreat to, and a lot of GI photos were taken there.

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

Hi Nick. I think Krefeld is possible as he was stationed there; it was captured by 84 Div. on March 2 and in May-June used for collection and destruction of LW aircraft. On 5th March Krefeld was 84 Div. Command Post as A1704, this was XIII Corps (Ninth Army) attached to the British 21st. Army Group. This is a March document with movements.
The 84th link shows attached units including AA artillery etc. which could have relevence to Mike's original post.
Krefeld had a satellite field nearby which might have stored abandoned aircraft.
Regards
Nick

https://history.army.mil/documents/eto-ob/84ID-ETO.htm

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-service...1/cs000274.pdf

Re: Me109 training unit identification
 

Mike. The 84th Div. campaigns were Ardennes-Rhineland-Central Europe which matches your "Ardennes-Krefeld-Neckarelz"; they moved back from Germany to Belgium attached VII Corps on 22 Dec. In Jan. 45 the Division was located around Amonines then to Krefeld and on to Hanover.

There was a Concentration Camp at Neckarelz but not like Dachau etc., there were several "labour" sub-camps working on re-located Daimler-Benz aero engines for Heinkel-Messerschmitt. The Germans evacuated them in March so they weren't exactly "liberated"; the Neckar valley was occupied by US forces beginning early April. Incidentally there is a Memorial to the 3rd. US Armd. Div. at Amonines.

If you would like to see the Ardennes study including 84th Div. on "history.army.mil" you can PM me with your e-mail rather than on here as it's not strictly aviation-related.


Nick B. this is part of the Bad Aibling airfield you mentioned above, in May.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/...-III-p744f.jpg
Regards
Nick K.