Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

On 8 February 1945, the very famous ground-attack pilot, Hans-Ulrich Rudel, was shot down by Soviet anti-aircraft fire on the Oder river front, near a town called Lebus. Rudel was gravely wounded, and had a leg amputated.

In his memoirs, Rudel mis-stated the date, as 9 February. Writing soon after the end of the war, he clearly did not have access to surviving archival material, and his account is not necessarily reliable. What I am interested in here is whether information is available from German primary sources about Rudel's mission. Memoirs tend to be flawed sources, so it would be good if some primary source information is available. Sadly, the surviving documents of Luftflotte 6, at least those which I have read, contain essentially no detail, as follows:

"Oberst Rudel S.G. 2 schwerverwundet, (Beinamputation)"

On the same day, 8 Feburary, the following milestones are noted:

"10.(Pz.)/S.G. 9 4000. Feindflug seit Aufstellung

Fw. Matthes 1.(Pz.)/S.G. 9 60. Panzerabschuß"

Everyone is welcome to either reply here, or contact me by private message.

Regards,

Dan

P.S. On 21 November 2018, almost six years ago, forum member Andrey Kuznetsov published an article about this incident, with the polemical title, "Thirteen tanks for one leg?". See the text at https://web.archive.org/web/20240814...v-za-odnu-nogu The majority of forum members do not read Russian, of course, so please use Google Translate, at https://translate.google.co.uk/ , in case of interest.

The article is far from wholly credible, its main purpose is clearly to question the credibility of Rudel's memoirs. The author suggests that Rudel's Ju 87 was most probably hit by Soviet 12.7 mm DShK machine guns, not 37 mm cannon, and that Rudel destroyed at most one Soviet tank and damaged another two, instead of the 13 he claimed to have destroyed that day. Kuznetsov's claims make it all the more interesting to see what German sources might have to say, if they have survived.

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Dan

I can't add any of the detail you're after but Rudel's Luftwaffenpersonalamt file has been digitised - PERS 6/182483.

Steve

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Although I have downloaded reams of these and I've definitely seen the report you mention, I'm failing to locate it at the moment (and I thought I was organised!). Which file is it on, please?

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Steve, thank you very much for pointing that out! You really are ever helpful. I wonder whether there are other personnel documents relating to Rudel at the Bundesarchiv. He did not serve post-war, but he was involved in the so-called Rudel-Affäre of 1976, when his presence at a West German air base for a unit veteran commemoration meeting, combined with his extreme-right opinions, caused a scandal. A book was published about this in 2020, which I do not have. You can hear a 17-minute presentation of the book at the following link, zms.bundeswehr.de/de/mediathek/zmsbw-angelesen-66-schilling-rudel-affaere-1976-5671500

Dan

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Nick, it is the final page of the "Beitrag zum Kriegstagebuch für den 8.2.1945."

Precise file reference, including digitised image identifier, is in your private message inbox. Hard experience has taught me not to publish file references freely on the forums, since 'enterprising' readers will then use the information found, without ever acknowledging the person who did the hard work of finding it in the first place.

Regards,

Dan

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Yup, the Bundesregierung did their best to distance themselves from Rudel. And don't forget his association with the Deutsches Reichs Partei.

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Which means what? Fill us in.

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Reichspartei

You can get a pretty good idea of where the guy stood politically from his memoirs, too.

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Vince, to be more precise, Rudel was a famous retired pilot, and nothing else, from the Bundesregierung point of view, until 1976. The Deutsche Reichspartei (DRP), and other Nazi-friendly and neo-Nazi forces, failed to obtain any national influence in West Germany, where society had had its full of that hatred. The Rudel scandal in 1976 was, in part, a consequence of the growing political disputes between left and right in West German politics, even if Rudel himself was a repulsive character who had no qualms about serving Hitler. He was a very brave and capable pilot, but also a vile political extremist - people are complicated.

As a non-aviation history aside, note that political extremism finds much more room for manoeuvre in modern, united, Germany. A central example of this, usually given scant attention in the English-language press, is the Bündnis Sahra Wagenknecht – Vernunft und Gerechtigkeit (BSW). An extreme-left party which has already had far more electoral success than the defunct extreme-right Deutsche Reichspartei.

Dan

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Thanks for the enlightenment Dan, but I have read several books on this individual, including his memoirs.

Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Hi guys

The only thing that I can add is that according to the QM 6:

8 February 1945 - Oberst Hans-Ulrich Rudel, Geschwaderkommodore of SG 2, shot down by Flak and injured in Ju 87 G-2 (W.Nr. 494 220), crashed, 50%

I too have his memoirs and by all accounts he was a brave and determined man with political views that were outside of the norm, to put it mildly. Nevertheless, the foreword of his book was written by none other than Douglas Bader, a fellow whom I have recently read also had his character hang-ups. As Dan History put it, people are complicated.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Good evening Gentlemen,

I'm quite astonished that there are so few threads about Rudel in this forum.
Why is this so ?

Cheers,
Michael

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Hello Michael,

I think it's because it's difficult to say anything new about him.
His memoirs contain fairly accurate facts of what he did, where, and when. He probably used some of his own notes. The problems begin when he describes the details and results of his actions. It feels like he couldn't control his imagination while writing the book
I have already written on this forum about the results of my analysis of the events of 8.Feb.45 in the Lebus area, when he lost his leg and allegedly destroyed 13 tanks. The reality contrasts sharply with the content of his memoirs. This is one of the few events in his memoirs where the place and date are specified, i.e., it is possible to analyze it.

The article is currently unavailable online, but the revised author's version is published in Technika Wojskowa Historia 2020-02 (in Polish). I added info found after the release of the first version of the article, including the factory numbers of all 3 tanks, the destruction/damage of which (all or some of them) Rudel could theoretically have been involved in.
There are questions even about such a well-known event as the hit on the battleship Marat on 23.Sep.41, in Kronstadt. I wrote a long article about the raids on Kronstadt in Sep.41, of which I have so far published only the part devoted to 23.Sep.41. You can read it here:

https://tacticmedia.ru/articles/cher...-gibel-marata/

The article is in Russian, but online translators now convey the content more or less accurately. I think the best translator right now is deepl.com.
The article is devoted to the events of 23.Sep.41 near Leningrad in general, but the raids on ships in Kronstadt are described in sufficient detail.
Regarding the battleship, according to the German report, VIII.Fl.Korps scored three hits on it, but according to Soviet data, 2 bombs hit it almost simultaneously—in front of and behind the foremast. Lt Stahl also saw that there were 2 hits. I have not yet found any documented evidence of who, according to the Germans, scored the hits other than Rudel. I have read that Oblt Lau was also credited with a hit, but I don’t know on what this claim is based. Considering that there were 2 actual hits, not 3, one of the 3 pilots missed. Moreover, it is unknown which of the 2 actual hits caused the fatal explosion.
Apparently, Staka Steen was right when he reported (according to Rudel's memoirs) that the damage to the battleship was the merit of the entire Staffel.
Rudel's claim to have sunk a cruiser in the same month is definitely not confirmed.

Overall, there is no doubt that Rudel was an outstanding pilot, but we will probably never know how great his actual successes were, as there is no data available for analysis. It is only clear that they are less than his official tally.

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: Hans-Ulrich Rudel on 8th (not 9th) February 1945 - what is known about the mission in which he lost his leg?
 

Good afternoon Andrey,

thanks for your explanations and assessments.
I have read the book written by him about his wartime career and the book about his mountaineering. They are entertaining to read and provide a colorful impression about his deeds. However, data for statitics fans like me is rather scarce. For example, has it ever been recorded how many missions he flew as an oberserver in the Polish campaign ?

Have a fine 1st Advent, sincerely,

Michael