BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

I have an ULTRA reference to this aircraft from March 1945. The Stammkennzeichen seems to fall with a block of Siebel Si 204's (and ithat fits the context) but can anyone confirm its identity?

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

I have Si 204 D-1, WNr. 321281, BP+FO. I have no Si 204 with WNr. 7204.

Matti

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

Thank you Matti.

This was from an ULTRA message (CX/MSS/R483(C),21:

To AMC [Air Movement Control] Unterschlauersbach from AMC Lechfeld, dated 4/3 [1945]:
Request landing report of 7204 BP+FO. Took off from Lechfeld at 0735/(smudge)2.

So I wonder what "7402" meant if it wasn't a Werk Nummer? Another aviation mystery!

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

Read it 7-204, which suggests Si 204 in some code I guess. There was 8-109, but I do not remember if 8 denoted fighter aircraft or aircraft,

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

8- were airframes and 9- were engines but thank you Franek because you inspired a thought that gave me the answer. Maybe the cipher clerk read "Siebel" as "Sieben" (= seven)?

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

Possibly, unless there was another code for such communications.
I wonder, do you have complete aircraft traffic in Ultra?

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

No, just a part of what is there for 1944–45, a few things from late 1943, items from Summer 1942 that related to my Kommando Koch project, one message from 1941 … there are hundreds of thousands of items from the Luftwaffe and army, even before you get to the naval material (which often links to Allied or German air operations) or the police and intelligence services’ signals (which I have looked at but are very hard to find anything specific in; they are in German and are mostly from and to callsigns whose meaning I don’t know). I haven’t seen the Reichsbahn traffic at all but I believe there is some.

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

Confess I was impressed by Nick's lateral thinking here.

Sieben 204 (is 7204)

Siebel 204 is just that, the aircraft type. Also it STKZ was used upon landing.

Why didn't I think of that? :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

Could it be the last 4 didgits of o a si204
Like Bu181 BN+OT Wrknr 16170 LSK4 43-44 the picture has the plane with the last 4 didgits 6170. I can imagine germans using the visable number in their communications

Picture https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...4#post-1962784

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

As per Matti's answer we know that BP+FO was WNr 321281 and nobody (so far) has ever heard
of a Si 204 with Wnr 7204.
Stig

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

So I understand those are random messages, as intercepted, and nothing that allows to build a broader picture? I guess there might be many gems, but without having all the intercepts digitised, and without a proper search tool it could be hard to locate them.
Franek

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

You can build a broader picture from those "random messages", something they did with great success during the war and that I've been trying to do since 1987. Some messages give great detail about the aircraft on strength with a unit or a comeplete after-action report on a raid, others might be a request for a spare wheel. There is no shortcut to putting in many hours of reading the material.

All of the "Main Series of reports to Allied Commands" (spring 1941–May 1945) are free to download from the National Archives and Andy Mitchell has transcribed some of these on Luftwaffe Data.

If haven't already, take a look at Using ULTRA for Luftwaffe research on my website.

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

I think I understood what you meant and I was just pointing out that there are online resources available if you want to start compiling the kind of database you are talking about. My own work on ULTRA has never aimed at that, it has always been in support of individual projects, usually involving a particular unit at a particular time.

Re: BP+FO, W.Br. 7204
 

I have the Flugbuch belonging to a Ogr. Karl-Heinz Marse, where he is flying BP + FO, a Siebel 204 D if you need a name to put inside the plane.