Ju87 data plate - Italian use?
 

Found among a GI’s bring-back items is a small aluminum data plate marked…

JUNKERS
Gerät-Nr “8-87 D-3 (Tp)”
Werk-Nr “10 0302”
“hls”

Entries in quotes are engraved into the plate. JUNKERS, Gerät-Nr, and Werk-Nr are etched as per a manufactured data plate.

Thoughts, please, as to the history/fate of this airplane?

Thank you,
Steve

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

The NASM Bf109 was manufactured as a TROP aircraft. While the original data plate is missing, the DB605 engine data plate has a TP following the Gerat Nr DB605 A1.

In the one small book I have of Ju-87s, it states that the D-3 was the first version to not have the 'siren' incorporated due to a weight increase by added armor. In the book is a color plate of a D-3/Trop, S7+AA, of Geschwaderstab StG 3, based at Haggag-el-Quasaba, Egypt, late 1942.

Book is Junkers Ju87 STUKA by Martin Derry and Neil Robinson.

Tony

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

I believe the data plate is for an assembly or device (Geräte) for the airframe (8-). The werk-nr is for that specific part/assembly.

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Thank you, Tony.

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

The style of the plate is that of a main data plate for an airplane, not a component plate. The WNr is in the Ju87 D-3 production block. I can now add that the plate was taken in the Mediterranean area of operations, North Africa or Italy.

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Does anybody knows, what abbreviation "hls" stands for (WFG-Lemwerder?)

best wishes
JoMe

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

hls = Weser Flugzeugbau G.m.b.H., Bremen 1

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Hi Stephen

While the Ju 87 A, B, C and R are quite reasonably covered, the Ju 87 D is not (at least not in
my lists)

For WNr 100302 I only have a STKZ KK+CB, that is it.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Thank you, Stephen

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Stig, thank you so much for that info. Very helpful! The skz “KK+CB” led me to search further. Thus, LRG (https://www.luftwaffe-research-group.com) revealed a vkz of M6+CL, which I don’t believe connects with a StG unit. Possible error? Also, the city of Bizerte is listed in connection with this airplane. Further thoughts?

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Not sure Stephen from where you or LRG get that info.
M6 was used by a ocean rescue unit (Seenotstaffel 3) equipped mostly with Heinkel 59 and later
Dornier 24T but also a few former French Breguet 521 'Bizerte'.
The M6 code was not assigned until quite late, 1944 or so.

A Ju 87 would be more or less useless for them.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Stig, I’ve since learned that the vkz in the LRG entry, that is “M6+CL,” is a mistake. Disregard Bizerte as a city reference, also. As it stands now, only WNr, 100302 linked with skz “KK+CB” for a Ju87 D-3 is correct.

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Stephen,

Following up on Stig's reply I looked up Wnr 100302 on Stammkennzeichen.de
It shows KK+GB as a result. Unfortunately no further details are provided for this individual aircraft,but the whole of the KK+G* series are shown as Ju 87 D-3 and of the few in the databse associated with a unit four are shown as operated by the Regia Aeronautica's 103 Gruppo. So if the GI referenced in your initial post was based in the Med, perhaps the plate is from a RA machine.

Regards,


Clint

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Good point Clint

However the book Gli Stuka della Regia does not show the WNr 100302 as delivered to Italy

They show 100202 and 100306 (for example) being delivered, but none with a known STKZ.

On the other hand they show KK+GD as WNr 100032 which leaves us with the question, is that
a misprint for 100302? Not impossible since I have the STKZ DS+ZF and a unit 4./StG 1 before
delivery to Italy in May 1943!
The book also lists WNr 100031 as delivered to the RA but without any STKZ.

If we do have a Ju 87 D expert, can he please stand up and help out here?? :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Clint, thanks for taking time to do that research and share your findings.

Let’s regroup…

The plate is definitely marked Ju87 D-3 and WNr. 100302. It was also definitely removed from a plane in the Mediterranean area.

Breguet 521 Bizerte and M6+CL are both not applicable.

Depending on reference source, two skz have been linked to airplane: KK+CB and KK+GB. I note that a letter ‘G’ could be misread for a ‘C,’ and vice versa; also, those letters are nearly adjacent on a keyboard

As of now, I’m inclined to see KK+GB as more likely than KK+CB. Also, it is possible that this Ju87 served with the RA. (Does a list of WNr. for Ju87s employed by the RA exist?) That possibility may be reinforced by the fact that among the group of plates that the GI possessed, a number of them were from airplanes designed and built by Italian firms.

Am hoping more information surfaces, a collective repeated thanks to all that responded so far.

Steve

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Yes it does

A list exists in the book Gli Stuka della Regia (as mentioned above)
However in this case it does not bring any clarity to the plate found.

If the WNr 100032 is a misprint for 100302 then the quoted STKZ KK+GD does not correspond to
a possible KK+GB. I can accept one misprint (or faulty Italian records) but hardly two....

Cheers
Stig

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Stig,Steve,

The Wnr 100032 mentioned by Stig is shown with the Stkz DS+ZF on Stammkennzeichen.de. Not surprisingly Stkz GG+KD has the Wnr 100304.

Regards,

Clint

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Can you check that again Clint?

GG+KD does not correlate to anything I have:confused:

I am now off until Friday, so hopefully this has been solved by then.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Sorry Stig,

I meant to write KK+GD as WNr 100304.

Regards,

Clint

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

After all the information above is laid out, deciphered, and correlated, is it fair to say that, most likely, WNr. 100302 was KK+GB?

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

OK Clint, no worries
Seems we have two versions regarding both the WNr and STKZ used.

My own second hand information is of little use from here on.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Steve,

Supporting Stig here, I believe what may help in your quest to track down the unit of the Ju 87 is a seperate question with Italian Ju 87s in the title of the thread. There may be board members here with the requisite knowledge on the tie in of either Wnr or Stkz and the Italian identity of your machine that have not responded to your thread in the belief it concerns only German machines. Just a thought. I hope it helps.

Regards,

Clint

Re: Ju87 data plate
 

Clint, great idea! Done.