B-17's use by RAF
 

Dear Guy's

I have a question about the use of B-17's by the British RAF. During a raid in September 1943 one was lost, yet it doesn't appear in my "Bomber losses of 1943" book !
Could they have been used by special units, and if so which ones? Or were they used by USAAF at night, which sounds strange.

Kind regards

Johannes

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

Johannes

Most of the later B-17s were delivered to Coastal Command.

I believe only 100th Group (Bomber Command) used these B-17s.
Any particular date?

Cheers
Stig

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

Hi Stig

Many thanks for your reply. I thought this also. Dates interested in are the Mannheim and Hannover attackes of 23/24th and 27/28th September 1943.. I have the "Coastal command losses" book, but unfortunately it ceases before this period.

Kind regards

Johannes

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

I don't think any RAF Fortresses were lost on any of those dates.

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

Well Johannes

I doubt Coastal Command flew any joint Bomber Command ops over Germany.
The number of aircraft were too few and CC was busy enough with convoy escorts,
ocean and weather reconnaissance.

I also checked all Fortress losses by CC and none fits.

As per BC War Diaries (Middlebrook) five B-17s took part in the Mannheim raid, no losses
Same thing on the Hannover raid, five B-17s, but this time with one stated loss

Looking through the British Fortresses I cannot verify that loss. Maybe I am missing
something....

Cheers
Stig

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

On the 27/28 Sept. joint Eighth / RAF mission to Hannover the 422BS (305BG) lost a B-17F, 1 of 5 they sent; the Squadron was established 7 Sept. 1943 at Chelveston to try night bombing with RAF BC. From 7/8 Oct. as the Night Leaflet Sqn. the mostly flew at night.

This was 42-29555 JJ-D Capt. H.B. Rodgers "CENTAUR" by e/a; most likely first Eighth B-17 lost at night. MACR 906.


Regards
Nick

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

Thanks Nick

That explains it. Wonder why Middlebrook never said that. Most likely the five 17s from the 23/24
were also from the USAAF

Cheers
Stig

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

The 422nd sent 5 out on the 23/24th with the RAF (Mission 102 Mannheim), only 1 damaged though. This was a bombing mission before they concentrated on leaflet dropping.
Regards
Nick

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

Hi Guys

Many thanks for all your inputs, seems the answer is it was a USAAF B-17, so question well answered.

Thanks again

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

Our friend Geoffrey Sinclair wish to add some notes regarding the USAAF nigh actions

The 8th Air Force night bombing experimental raids September/October
1943, \ sent \ effective \ missing \ short tons HE \ mission
Boulogne 08-Sep-43 I/A \ 5 \ 5 \ 0 \ 10.8 \ 93
Montlucon 15-Sep-43 I/A \ 5 \ 5 \ 0 \ 11 \ 96
Modane 16-Sep-43 M/Y \ 5 \ 5 \ 0 \ 8.8 \ 98
Hannover 22-Sep-43 I/A \ 5 \ 5 \ 0 \ 15 \ 99
Mannheim 23-Sep-43 I/A \ 5 \ 4 \ 0 \ 7 \ 102
Hannover 27-Sep-43 I/A \ 5 \ 4 \ 1 \ 10 \ 105
Munich 02-Oct-43 I/A \ 2 \ 2 \ 0 \ 5 \ 107
Frankfurt-am-Main 04-Oct-43 I/A \ 3 \ 2 \ 1 \ 2.5 \ 109

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

The plane lost on 04-Oct (from the fortlog, page 68):

https://384thbombgroup.com/_content/...ds/FORTLOG.pdf

42-3091 Del Cheyenne 3/2/43; New Castle 18/4/43; Ass 334BS/95BG [BG-K] Framlingham 12/5/43; 5m, tran 422BS/305BG [JJ-S] Chelveston 17/6/43;

MIA Frankfurt (a night mission 3/4 Oct) 4/10/43 w/Tom
Seay, b-Norman Sarrat, ro-Chas Cox, wg-Bernie Resnicoff, tg-Jim Burney (5POW); cp-Ed Troph, n-Bob Pierce, ettg-Clarry Brauser, btg-L.G. McCoy, wg-Delano Williams (5KIA); flak, cr on fire Gross-Karben, 10 miles NE of Frankfurt, Ger. MACR 785

The MACR : https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90896600

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

Hi Guys

I wonder if there was only five B-17's assigned to the experiment?
I would guess the experiment was a result of the first Schweinfurt raid, seems they lost 40% of the night-bomber aircraft in four weeks, perhaps influencing the end of the experiment....who can say.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

All 422BS B-17s were ordered to be modified (there were many mods.) for night flying in Sept. as lead crews ; up to the last mission , 4 Oct. 1943, 35 aircraft had been sent out with 2 lost (the 2nd. as posted by Rolland). After that the Sqn. was engaged in leaflet missions at night ( I believe first was Nov. 7).this was then their primary duty (later as the 406BS (NLS).



Nick

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

from the NCA:
27/28 Sep 43 loss by Hpt Manfred Meurer St/II/NJG 5 coned by 3/Flakscheinw.149(Werfer 1006)
3/4 Oct 43 loss by Maj Wilhelm Herget St/I/NJG 4

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

Re: B-17's use by RAF
 

Flakscheinw. Flakscheinwerfer Falk searchlight note some searchlights had female crews