Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

I am trying to find out more on this pilot. Born 29 Sep 15 in Dueren, he was originally a member of 5./196 from 1940 flying the Ar 196. He made two claims in 1942 (12 July and 18 August) and when the unit became 1./128, he made two more claims (7 July and 13 July 1943). He was killed in action with Stab./III./JG 2 on 30 April 1944 4 km east of Etampes. He received the EP and DKiG (the latter posthumously). It appears he was not married and his final rank was Ofw

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

In Arado Ar 196 Units in combat (Peter de Jong-Osprey-2021) the claims by 5./196 are listed as (1) 14 July 1942- Wellington 172 Sq and (2) 13 August 1942- Whitley 77 Sq Z9461. The Appendix B in above book does not list the names of claimants, except in few cases

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

I have Whitley Z9511/O 51 Sqn on 12 July 42. I have a Catalina of 119 Sqn by Hptm Werner Techam on 14 July 42 and the 172 Sqn on 15 July but no claimant as it crash-landed on return (no losses for 172 Sqn on 14 Jul 42). I have nothing Ar 196-related on 13 Aug 42 albeit this aircraft was seen be chased by "enemy aircraft". No German claims at all.

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Hi Chris,
Andrew Arthy give informations on Jost :
https://www.asisbiz.com/Luftwaffe/sagr128.html
Fred

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Andrew and I corresponded on this some time ago (I have this in front of me now) but I am always suspect about asisbiz information. BTW this is not the same man as listed in the Officers Career Summary, this is:

1945-01-20, 2./SG 77, Fw 190 F-8, 582211, Black 11, Raum Jaworzno-Chrzanow (Pl.Qu. 9176). Lt Karl-Friedrich Jost (1923-05-18, EM 58460/1199=SG 151) missing

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

RAF Commands has the loss report on Whitley V Z9461 77 Sq. as lost on 13th August 1942.https://www.rafcommands.com/database...php?uniq=Z9461

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Mr Asisbiz was more than happy to copy and paste my entire article to his website without permission, but neglected to mention my old Focke-Wulf 190 site (http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/index.htm) as his source.

Friedrich Jost did not make a claim on 13 August 1942: his nearest was 17 August 1942.

Unfortunately, I haven't looked into this fascinating topic in many years, and Chris was a great help when I wrote the original article back in the early 2000s.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

There is little respect for copyright online. I have seen too many photos of various subjects reposted without permission from the rights holder, and written text just copied without regard to the original author's right to determine who can copy his work. I suggest that photos and text without proper attribution should not be used. Any such use should carry a copyright notice identifying the person or entity who holds the rights or the use of "Reprinted with permission of ____."

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Andrew happy 2025 and I suspected this was there without your permission or acknowledgment. The list of claims came from Hans Ring many moons ago by the way. Most combats were with aircraft damaged by this unit, the only names according to him were:


21 Jun 42: Sunderland destroyed Whitley damaged by Ofw D.....(10 Sqn & 58 Sqn)
12 Jul 42: Whitley of 51 Sqn by Jost
14 Jul 42: Catalina 119 Sqn by Hptm Werner Techam
30 Jul 42: Sunderland of 10 Sqn by Techam
18 Aug 42: Wellington 311 Sqn by Jost but credited to Stolle of 8./JG 2


The Whitley on 13 Aug 42 was credited to a Bf 110 according to him. There was also a claim for a Whitley 450km west of Bordeaux on 17 Aug 42 but this was by a Fw 200 and the aircraft was from 58 Sqn

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Interesting, no one has been able to identify the Ofw D... who shot down the Sunderland pf 10 SQ on June 21,1942. I have a book on Australian RAAF stories and there is a story about Sgt Hazard, the French pilot of the Surcouf submarine airplane who was serving with 10 Squadron flying in Sunderland. He was aboard the Sunderland when it was shot down.

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Hi Chris

I cannot find the claim for 07.07.1943 on the mikrofilm(unconfirmed?), that for 13.07.1943 was a B-24 at 0640 hrs A.S.M(I suspect shared), but comes up as 10./ZG 1.

Also two Beaufighters on 25.08.1943 1456 hrs and 1457 hrs, again A.S.M, again with 10./ZG 1, but as we know actually 1./SaG 128.

There are fifteen claims on a mikrofilm listing only date and time for 1./BFGr.196 and 5./BFGr.196. Twenty-two with names for 1./SaG 128 from 30.04.1943 until 09.09.1943.

What is your source for your 07.07.1943 claim?

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Johannes: This what I have; I will email you:

7 Jul 43
1205hrs
Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
Beaufort
JM336/248 Sqn (Plt Off J C White)

7 Jul 43
1210hrs
Oblt Heinz Wurm
Beaufort
See above


There were 8 claims for this unit and 1./128 for what were in fact Lancasters. Sources are various including Jochen Prien's book

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1697

Hi Chris,

Like Johannes, I was unable to find the claims of Jost and Wurm for 7 July 1943 on p.0179 of RL 5/1449. However, the date and times match on page 1 of the Abschußübersicht of 10./ZG 1 found on p. 0281 of RL 5/1462.

Jim

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Hi Guys

It would appear that Herr Prien's EXCEL has mis-sorted(like his II./JG 2 in Africa) details are correct, but everything mixed up. Those for 07.07.1943 match those for 29.07.1943.

Reality is(1./SaGr.128:-

30.04.1943 Beaufighter Uffz Berger 0618 hrs 10 metres altitude.

17.05.1943 B-17 Oblt Heinz Wurm 1222 hrs A.S.M

30.05.1943 B-24 Oblt Wurm 2054 hrs into Sea North of Brest.

13.07.1943 B-24 Oblt Wurm 0635 hrs 20 metres A.S.M
B-24 ofw Hans Gryz 0640 hrs 700 metres A.S.M
B-24 ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost 0640 hrs 1000 metres A.S.M

29.07.1943 B-24 Oblt Wurm 0627 hrs
B-24 Oblt Wurm 0643 hrs
Beaufort Ofw Helmut Haase 1205 hrs
B-24 Oblt Wurm 1210 hrs
B-24 Ofw Gryz 2036 hrs 10 metres

30.07.1943 Ventura Ofw Wilhelm Büschen 1750 hrs 5 metres into the North Sea !

07.08.1943 Beaufighter Oblt Wurm 2055 hrs 200 metres.

15.08.1943 Spitfire Ofw Georg Sievert 1645 hrs 1000 metres
Spitfire Oblt Wurm 1645 hrs 1000 metres.

22.08.1943 Mosquito Oblt Wurm 1021 hrs 100 metres.

25.08.1943 Beaufighter Ofw Jost 1456 hrs A.S.M
Beaufighter Oblt Wurm 1456 hrs into Sea 120km West of Brest.
Beaufighter Ofw Jost 1457 hrs A.S.M
Beaufighter Oblt Wurm 1507 hrs into Sea 120km West of Brest

09.09.1943 Wellington Oblt Wurm 1600 hrs

09.10.1943 B-17 Oblt Heinz Wilhelm 1230 hrs 4200 metres

Regards

Johannes

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

I would agree there is major confusion with this unit and I have emailed Johannes. Berger is 10/ZG1 in North Africa; 30 July 43 cannot be 1./128 as they did not operate over the North Sea; no idea who Heinz Wilhelm is. Apart from 15 Aug 43, my claims accord with what Jim posted albeit a number of 13 Jul 43 claims are missing

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Hi Chris

I believe Oblt Heinz Wilhelm is with 8./ZG 1, and as pointed out Jim listed the missing 13.07.1943 claims as 07.07.1943.

Seems that Heinz Wurm was the star of the show here. Also altitudes are very low in most cases for everybody.

Regards

Johannes

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

He will be the old ZG 1 then and not a Fw 190 pilot; the old ZG 1 becoming ZG 26 around this time

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1698

Curiously, as Johannes said, these are the five claims of 10./ZG 1 on 29.7.1943, anerk's #2 to #6. Yet, while the Abscußübersicht got the times right, the dates of #2 to #5 are wrong! Are the anerk's supposed to be chronological by times? These are not for the 29th.

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Ofw. Wilhelm Büschen and Oblt. Heinz Wilhelm are both 8./ZG 1 which became 5./ZG 26 later. Oblt. Wilhelm was killed in October 1943 and Ofw. Büschen survived the war.

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Hi Guys

A comment about anerk numbers. They do not run consecutive as such, they usually do run one after the other, but then change around i.e 101,102,103,104, 77,78,79, 105,106,107 I don't know why exactly. There are a few incorrect date on the mikrofilms i.e duplication exactly a year apart(only in the west and for night-fighters) then with Günther Rall his 199th-200th are duplicated a month later, with Walter Wolfrum on his biggest day one is recorded for the next day which is impossible because he was seriously wounded.

Regards

Johannes

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Thanks to Johannes and Jim, I think I have sorted out the claims. 21 between 29 Jan 43 (this could be with Ar 196) and 6 Jan 44. Using the attachments has cleared up some of the names which means Wurm has 11, Jost 4 and Gryz and Haase two. Other two claimants were Sievert and Stain both of whom were killed in the same combat. All match with Allied losses apart from 17 May 43 when III./JG 2 claimed quite a number of B-17s attacking Lorient and Wurm one; only 4 B-17s were lost and 7 July 1943 when two Beauforts were claimed and 248 Sqn lost one Beaufighter. There was an indirect additional one on 7 Aug 43. Beaufighter JM343 suffered two hits but a third was not discovered until 16 Aug 43 when engine seized on a transfer flight due a cannon shell being lodged in the port engine reduction gear and following crash-landing at Carew Cheriton it caught fire!

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Johannes and all

The anerk numbers are per date the claims are awarded not date of being claimed. The only place I have found the actual date awarded is on the victory claim certificates (abschrift or Abschußbescheinigung – I hope I got it correct) which were sent to the pilot confirming the victory – I’ve not seen these dates anywhere in the archives.

Anyway, below is a sample of anerks and award dates from the certificates for Oblt Knauth, Oblt v Fassong and Ofw Vechtel for several of their claims while members of 10/JG51

Listed by anerk, then award date and then claim date, etc.

Anerk Award Claimed Time Claimant Type
5 25.11.41 22.06.41 07.06 Oblt Knauth I-153
15 07.01.42 29.06.41 17.46 Oblt Knauth SB-2
41 06.02.42 07.07.41 18.58 Oblt Knauth I-153
47 19.03.42 20.07.41 08.55 Oblt Knauth ZKB-19
48* 19.03.42 26.07.41** 08.53 Oblt Knauth DB-3a *incorrectly numbered as 46 in T Woods list
** telegram dated 31.05.42 correcting date from 26.07.41 to 21.07.41
49* 19.03.42 22.07.41 18.55 Oblt Knauth DB-3 *incorrectly numbered as 43 in T Woods list
51 02.04.42 08.08.41 15.20 Oblt Knauth DB-3
60* 16.05.42 29.08.41 08.40 Oblt Knauth I-15 Rata *incorrectly numbered as 66 in T Woods list
61 16.05.42 30.08.41 11.15 Oblt Knauth R-5
63 16.05.42 03.09.41 16.10 Oblt Knauth DB-3
75 03.08.42 13.10.41 10.30 Oblt Knauth DB-3
79 21.09.42 28.10.41 15.12 Oblt Knauth I-61
80 21.09.42 16.11.41 09.55 Oblt Knauth I-61
85 04.11.42 29.03.42 09.37 Oblt Knauth Pe-2
89 14.04.43 28.05.41 19.25 Oblt Knauth Spitfire
100 13.05.44 11.01.44 14.42 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
101 13.05.44 11.01.44 14.45 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
102 13.05.44 11.01.44 14.46 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
105 13.05.44 15.01.44 14.33 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
106 13.05.44 15.01.44 14.35 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
125 30.05.44 24.01.44 14.00 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
128 30.05.44 25.01.44 11.15 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
129 30.05.44 25.01.44 11.18 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
131 30.05.44 25.01.44 11.20 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
146* 07.07.44 18.04.44 11.55 Ofw Vechtel LaGG-5 *incorrectly numbered as 140 in T Woods list
253 25.10.44 07.05.43 04.29 Ofw Vechtel MiG-3
256 25.10.44 09.05.43 07.55 Oblt v Fassong Airacobra
259 25.10.44 02.06.43 03.56 Oblt v Fassong LaGG-5
261 25.10.44 02.06.43 10.30 Oblt v Fassong LaGG-3
264 25.10.44 08.06.43 19.16 Ofw Vechtel Il-2
265 25.10.44 08.06.43 19.19 Ofw Vechtel Il-2
269 25.10.44 10.06.43 19.11 Oblt v Fassong LaGG-5
271 25.10.44 10.06.43 19.16 Oblt v Fassong Pe-2
274 25.10.44 10.06.43 19.20 Oblt v Fassong Pe-2
280 07.11.44 05.07.43 10.06 Oblt v Fassong LaGG-5
281 07.11.44 05.07.43 10.22 Oblt v Fassong LaGG-5
283 07.11.44 05.07.43 12.35 Oblt v Fassong Il-2
284 07.11.44 05.07.43 13.24 Oblt v Fassong Boston
291 07.11.44 06.07.43 04.24 Oblt v Fassong R-4
294 07.11.44 06.07.43 04.28 Oblt v Fassong Il-4
296 07.11.44 06.07.43 04.32 Oblt v Fassong Il-4
305 07.11.44 06.07.43 10.55 Oblt v Fassong LaGG-3
306 07.11.44 06.07.43 11.09 Oblt v Fassong LaGG-5
317 07.11.44 09.07.43 08.31 Oblt v Fassong MiG-2
334 07.11.44 13.07.43 07.16 Oblt v Fassong Il-4
336 07.11.44 13.07.43 07.19 Oblt v Fassong Il-4
354 07.11.44 17.07.43 12.01 Oblt v Fassong LaGG-3
355 07.11.44 17.07.43 12.03 Oblt v Fassong LaGG-3
357 07.11.44 22.07.43 19.55 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
358 07.11.44 22.07.43 19.58 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
368 07.11.44 02.08.43 12.05 Oblt v Fassong LaGG-3
370 07.11.44 03.08.43 17.53 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
378 07.11.44 05.08.43 07.36 Oblt v Fassong Boston
380 07.11.44 05.08.43 07.39 Oblt v Fassong Boston
398 08.11.44 14.08.43 18.15 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
399 08.11.44 14.08.43 18.16 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
401 08.11.44 14.08.43 18.17 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
407 08.11.44 14.08.43 18.21 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
410 08.11.44 14.08.43 18.24 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
422 08.11.44 18.08.43 06.14 Oblt v Fassong Yak-1
427 08.11.44 18.08.43 17.42 Oblt v Fassong Il-2 m.H.
430 08.11.44 18.08.43 17.54 Oblt v Fassong Boston III
433 08.11.44 19.08.43 15.05 Ofw Vechtel LaGG-5
437 08.11.44 22.08.43 17.38 Oblt v Fassong Pe-2

Note the award dates are in order with the anerk dates not the claim dates as stated previously.

As to claim dates being processed in groups (101,102,103,104, 77,78,79, 105,106,107) - I believe the was a change in the award process around October/November 1943. From the award dates on the certificates I’ve seen copies of, in general by late 1943 they were only up to awarding claims around June/July 1942 - nearly 18 months behind in processing the claims. I believe this was due to the rigorous criteria that was imposed on confirming claims in the early part of the war (i.e. wrecks / ground witnesses etc) they relaxed the requirements to increase processing of the award process (also helped in propaganda). Thus, started awarding claims from late 1943 onwards to new requirements while still catching up on the gap (Jul 42 to Oct/Nov 43 to lesser stringent requirements) as well as reviewing older claims (pre Jul 1942) that did not meet the initial requirements and were being held for further evidence.

Using the same 10/JG51 as an example we have the following groups (this is typical of most staffeln):

Anerk up to 99 claimed up to 11.07.42 and processed prior to Oct 43 (Knauth claims dates) – though generally in order by claim date can vary with delayed awards
100 - 110 claimed Jan 44 (Fassong confirmed 13.05.44) – live processing after November 1943
111 – 118 claimed Apr 44 – a bit of an anomaly – live processing
119 - 139 claimed 16.01.44 – 27.03.44 (Fassong conf 30.05.44) – live processing
140 - 142 missing (likely 1941-42 claims reviewed)
143 31.07.42 claim (likely reviewed) – results of review of older claims
144 – 159 Apr 44 (Vechtel conf 07.07.44) – live processing
160 – 163 Aug 42 – catch up on missing period
164 – 188 May 44 – live processing
189 – 192 Aug 42 – catch up on missing period
193 - 199 Jun 44 – live processing
200 – 203 Sep 42– catch up on missing period
204 - 212 Aug 44 – live processing
213 - 250 Nov 42 to Apr 43– catch up on missing period
251 + 05.07.43? – anomaly maybe 07.05.43?
252 - 277 May/June 43 (Vechtel/Fassong awarded 25.10.44) – catch up on missing period
278 - 442 Jul/Aug 43 (Fassong/Vechtel awarded 07&08.11.44) – catch up on missing period
443 – 470 Aug/Sep 44 (as 13/JG 51 - renamed) – live processing
471 – 584 Sep 43 to Nov 43 – catch up on missing period
585 – 637 Oct 44 (as 13/JG 51 - renamed) – live processing
No anerks beyond Oct 44

I have fund that this scenario is typical for most of the staffeln (including the continuation of numbers with renaming of units).

If anyone has copies of the award certificates that they can forward to me, I’m confident that the award dates will fit in with the groupings above with the various staffeln anerk lists.

Regards

Craig…

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Hi Craig,

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1699

This is the Abschußübersicht for 10./JG 51 from RL 5/1461 p. 0457. It is unusual in being typed and lacking the date of the award of the anerk.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1700

This is the more usual handwritten Abschußübersicht of 10./JG 300. Note that the dates of the awards are found under "Briefbuch Nr." after "vom or "v.. In this case anerk #3 of 2.9.44 (yes, it is a "2"!) is out of chronological sequence because it was awarded on 25.10.44 and #4,5 and 6 were awarded on 4.11.44.

Curiously, all of the anerk's of 10./ZG 1 were awarded on 27.6.44.

best regards,

Jim

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Thanks Jim

I didn’t realise the award dates were on the documents you pointed out (sample on the second link you provided). They match up nicely with what I have of award dates on award certificates, thus confirming what I’ve been stating for some time – the anerk numbers are in order by award date not date of claim.

In revisiting 10./JG 51 – I now have the following:

Anerk up to 99 claimed up to 11.07.42 and processed prior to Oct 43 – though generally in order by claim date, this can vary at times with delayed awards
100 - 110 Jan 44 awarded 13.05.44 – start of live processing after change
111 – 118 Apr 44 awarded 25.05.44 – a bit of an anomaly being processed before Jan-Mar claims– live processing
119 – 133 Jan 44 – awarded 30.05.44 – live processing
134 - 137 Feb 44 – awarded 12.06.44 – live processing
138 – 139 Mar 44 – awarded 21.06.44 - live processing
140 + 12.10.41 old claim – awarded 26.06.44 – result of review of older claims
141- 143 1941/42 claims – awarded 04.07.44 - results of review of older claims
144 – 159 Apr 44 - awarded 07.07.44 – live processing
160 – 163 Aug 42 – awarded 11.07.44 - catch up on missing period
164 – 188 May 44 – awarded 15.08.44 - live processing
189 – 192 Aug 42 – awarded 18.09.44 – overwritten – believe should be 18.08.44 - catch up on missing period
193 - 198 Jun 44 – awarded 01.09.44 - live processing
199 + 07.07.44 – awarded 12.09.44 - live processing
200 – 203 Sep 42– awarded 24.09.44 - catch up on missing period
204 - 212 Aug 44 – awarded 03.10.44 - live processing
213 – 229 Nov/Dec 42 – awarded 08.10.44 – catch up on missing period
230 – 235 Jan 43 – awarded 11.10.44 – catch up on missing period
236 – 242 Feb/Mar 43 – awarded 15.10.44 – catch up on missing period
243 - 250 Apr 43 - awarded 25.10.44 – catch up on missing period
251 + 05.07.43 – reissued - original claim 24.04.43 (awarded 25.10.44 cancelled) reissued 7.11.43 to claim of 05.07.43
252 - 277 May/June 43 - awarded 25.10.44 – catch up on missing period
278 - 385 Jul/Aug 43 – awarded 07.11.44 – catch up on missing period
386 – 442 Aug 43 – awarded 08.11.44 – catch up on missing period
443 – 470 Aug/Sep 44 – all awarded 29.11.44 (as 13/JG 51 - renamed) – live processing
471 – 584 Sep/Nov 43 – all awarded 10.12.44 – catch up on missing period
585 – 637 Oct 44 – awarded 12.01.45 (as 13/JG 51 - renamed) – live processing
638 – 665 Oct 44 – awarded 21.01.45 (as 13/JG 51 -renamed) – live processing
No anerks for claims beyond Oct 44

However, there are 3 anomalies in the list above.
First – Anerk 111-118 for claims in April 1944 were awarded on 13.05.44 while Jan/Mar 44 were after this neing awarded on 30.05.44. a bit out of order but the anerks still align with award date.
Second – Anerk 200 – 203 are listed as being awarded on 18.09.44 which is after the award of the next block which was awarded on 01.09.44 – The date is clearly overwritten and I believe the original date was 18.08.44 which would fit with the anerk numbers aligning with the award dates
Third – Anerk 251 was originally awarded on 25.10.44 but was crossed out (cancelled) and re-awarded to a claim made later on 05.07.43 that was awarded on 07.11.43. – thus out of sequence.

As can be seen the claims were awarded in blocks of claims and it must be noted that each block the awarded claims are listed in chronological order of date/time of the claims awarded on that date.

The first document supplied is a list of the early war claims prior to the change that I believe happened– it would be interesting to see the accuracy of these claims against known losses – I believe these would be a lot more accurate (reliable) than the claims made in the latter years of the war. As they were more thoroughly investigated.

Regards

Craig…

Re: Ofw Friedrich-Josef Jost
 

Hi Guys

Don't know why, but I have Heinz Wilhelm Staffelkapitän of 8./ZG 1(Sag128 from 1st March 1943 until his death in a Me410 on 14th October 1943.

Regards

Johannes