Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Hi Guys

Fw Hans Kühnel made six claims between 04,10.1942 and 03,09.1943 with 4./JG 3 and 11./JG 3, after which I know nothing later about him. However there is a Fw Kühnel claiming a B-17 on 08,03.1944 at 1423 hrs 5000 metres altitude with Industrial.Soren Can anybody kindly confirm or otherwise it's the same guys ? Kühnel also flew with erg./JGr.Sud at some point.

Thanks in advance

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Hello Johannes,

according to Tony Wood a Fw Kübrick of the Industrie-Staffel Erla was credited with the B-17 victory near Cottbus on 8 May 1944.
According to Jagdfliegerverbände Vol. 13/I the victory as credited to a pilot – no name – of the Industrie-Schutzstaffel Sorau.

Regards
Leo

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Hi Leo

There is no such claim on the mikrofilms for 8th May 1944, I assume you mean 8th March 1944 when there is one for Ernst-Albrecht Leube of Indus.Erla at 1337 hrs a B-17, but that is not on the mikrofilms either(flugbuch). Leube is the only multiple claimer with these obscure units with seven claims of which only three were confirmed.

I believe woods is wrong on this one, we are looking at the same claim, but with different results. It is NW of Cottbus, but I still see Kühnel and certainly not Indus.Erla, but is might very well be Indus.Sorau not Indu.Soren.

Can't see how to add an attachment, otherwise I can attach the mikrofilm image.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Item 13:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1707

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Thanks Karoband

Using the other known names surely it's Ku - nel, and the U has an umlaut therefore Kü - nel which I make it Kühnel almost certainly, but that doesn't mean it's Hans Kühnel, I just think it is because of the same rank i.e Fw and the timing i.e after his know association with JG 3 ends. Can't find any loss for him beyond JG 3 either.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Hi Guys

I have looked and looked at the name. No way can I see "Kübrick", only "Kühnel", or at a push "Kichnel".

These Indus units are so obscure, and I suspect so few pilots flying for each of them. All seem to have made claims within a short timeline, and I suspect there were far more such units that actually made claims.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Dietmar Hermann wrote an article in Jet & Prop 2/2006 about the Industrieschutz Staffeln of Focke Wulf. Nothing on a Hans Kühnel though.

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Thanks john

Am still working on it.

Moving on I have three or four other unidentified claimants:

02,11.1943 1253 hrs name is "LOR,O..." it's something like "Lorpollo" a Leutnant.

20,02,1944 1443 hrs name is "L......" it's something like "Lerisch" a Feldwebel.

29,04.1944 1205 hrs name is like "Füy" a gefreiter.

Yours hopefully

Johannes

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Hello Johannes,

in Jagdfliegerverbände Vol. 10/III is listed:
2.11.43 Industrieschutzstaffel WNF Lt Loschella B-17 12.53 near Gammersdorf.

According to Jagdfliegerverbände Vol. 13/I on 29 April 1944 a B-17 was shot down at 12.05 near Burg by "Einflieger Gottfried Fay", who was a civilian employee of the Jasta Erla.

Regards
Leo

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Dear Leo

Great information, many, many thanks.

I misread Gottfried as Gefreiter, no mention of Burg on mikrofilm which just reinforces it as Gottfried Fäy as obviously from another source. A rare thing a civilian making a claim, no wonder I couldn't identify the name.

With Loschella mikrofilm states bei Gammersdorf, but the "G" certainly doesn't look like so. But also I am still not 100% sure about the name, certainly doesn't look like "sch" mid-name, perhaps your source is the mikrofilm. But I searched all my claimants and have come to the conclusion this is a first-time claimant. But I will search else where for a Lt Loschella and see if anything come up.

Thanks again

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Hi Leo

Have checked again with Loschella which it almost certainly is not. I checked each letter of the name against others on the mikrofilms, the first three letters are almost certainly LOR then the next there was no non-capital c,h,l,p,q,v,w or y to check against, it's one of those and I would say "p" is what it is, so I still think it's "Lorpollo" or "Lorpolla". The officers careers summaries has two names "Loschella" and "Lochella" but comments not sure.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Item #3:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1708

I couldn't find a match for 1443 hrs on 20 February 1944. Is item # 20 the one?

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1709

Item #2:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1710

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Sorry

Must have been looking at the wrong line. Yes it's 20th February 1944 sheet nr.6 line 20 1245 hrs.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Something to note here:

1. According to Erla's personnel information, there was no "Einflieger Gottfried Fay". There was only one pilot, Hans Fay, who was still in Antwerp at Erla-Werk VII at least on March 18, 1944. At that time he was Obfw. (at least that's the rank he signs his letters with).

2. According to Prien, the Jasta Erla was disbanded in JFV 13/VI on March 10, 1944, which is why he could not have been a member of this unit on April 29, 1944.

3. I suspect that the mention in Volume 13/I is a misinterpretation of the entry in the overview, because this name does not appear in Volume 13/VI for Jasta Erla.

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Hello Rasmussen,

in the overview for 29 Apr 1944 in JFV 13/I the B-17 loss near Burg was claimed by the Erla Werke. According to footnote 1107 on page 400 in JFV 13/I the "Einflieger Gottfried Fay" was a civilian employee of the Erla Werke, not of the Jasta Erla. I have misread this entry.
According to your clarification with regard to the pilot Fay the footnote 1107 is not correct.

Regards
Leo

Re: Hans Kühnel JG3 & Indus.Soren ?
 

Hi Guys

Just to let you know it is Hans Kühnel formally of JG 3 who made the claim.

Kind Regards

Johannes