Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Hi all!

Does anybody have info about plase of burth of following Zerstorer pilots?

Where it is possible to may be visit those graves?

Hannes Gentzen
+ 26.05.1940 Neufchateau, France

Wolfgang Schenck
Lived in Marburg, but I don’t know where & when he passed away…

Egon Albrecht
+ 25.08.1944 bei Creil/Frankreich

Herbert Kutscha
+ 19.09.2003 Kempten

Johannes Lutter
+ 13.03.2004 Bückeburg

Scheffel, Rudolf
+ 18.12.1983 Mönchengladbach

Gunther Tonne
+ 15.07.1943 Vibo Valentia/Italien

Peter Jenne
+ 02.03.1945 bei Schmerwitz/Mark Brandenburg

Dassow, Rudi
+ 25.08.1944 bei La Fère/Frankreich

Peterburs, Hans
+ 11.01.1944 bei Salerno/Italien

Diesing, Ulrich
+ 17.04.1945 Boizenburg

Tratt, Eduard
+ 22.02.1944 Nordhausen/Harz

Hintze, Otto
+ 09.05.1999

With best wishes, Evgenij

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Best thing you can do is use the Volksbund website (http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche/content_suche.asp).

For example, it will give you the grave of Johannes Gentzen (in Germany).

Search all your list, and then ask here only those that are not listed on the Volksbund for more details. You will have more luck to draw replies if you had already done a part of the work.

Best regards

Laurent

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Likely burial places: Hintze - Munich, and Schenck - Marburg. Schenck died in the late 1990s, I believe.

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Thank John & Laurent for answer!!!

I searched this things in past, but could found only photoe of grave of Egon Albrecht:

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Thank you for that information, Eugen.
George

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

This photo was published in my article about Egon Albrecht. The photo was taken in a cemitery at Creil, France. Do not have it´s name, maybe only one exhist there.
http://www.asgard-rio.com.br/coluna1-sergio.htm

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Hallo, Sergio Luis dos Santos!!! Nice to see You here!!!

Where did You found a scan image of report of Fw.Tamm about last mission of Kaldrack & Ortmann? Is it real to find there any more SKG 210/ZG 1 reports?

I discussed this mission with my friends on Suhkoy Forum...

And, according with some documents from ZAMO archives of Russian Federation, we have to say: I found a name of that I-18 pilot (actually it was LaGG-3 fighter from 21 IAP, pilot - starshij leytenant N.F.Bocharov). Both german planes was hit by rockets RS-82, launched from VERY short distance.

After we will clear all with this 100%, I will post it here.

Also, here it is a claim list of Albrecht for You, as fuul as it can be found. A bit later I will try to confirm eatch victory with Russian losts, and find name of crews... If You will use this sourse to find DIRECT locations of victoryes, all work will be very fast :)

Victory №1
08.02.42 Ltn. Egon Albrecht 6./ZG 1 R-5  1 km. S.W. Wjerchowje: no height 16.14 Film C. 2034 Wartemappe?
Victory №2
04.07.42 Ltn. Egon Albrecht 6./ZG 1 Yak-1  8126 at 700 m. 16.18 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.14
Victory №3
04.07.42 Ltn. Egon Albrecht 6./ZG 1 Yak-1  8123 at 600-300 m. 16.27 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: ASM
Victory №4
26.07.42 Ltn. Egon Albrecht 6./ZG 1 Yak-1  07 120: at 100 m. 04.34 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.
Victory №5
26.07.42 Ltn. Egon Albrecht 6./ZG 1 I-153  87 210: no height 16.25 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.
Victory №6
01.08.42 Ltn. Egon Albrecht 6./ZG 1 I-16 Rata  0614: at 1.800 m. 10.19 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr. 55
Victory №7
23.08.42 Ltn. Egon Albrecht 6./ZG 1 I-153  75 272: at 25 m. 14.44 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 59
Victory №8
24.08.42 Ltn. Egon Albrecht 6./ZG 1 DB-3  75 282: at 70 m. 16.29 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 60
Victory №9
23.09.42 Ltn. Egon Albrecht 6./ZG 1 I-15  95 550: at 20-30 m. 12.35 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 74
Victory №10
31.10.42 Ltn. Egon Albrecht 6./ZG 1 I-153  44 780: at 20 m. 14.39 Film C. 2035/I Anerk: Nr. 76
Victory №11
05.11.42 Ltn. Egon Albrecht 6./ZG 1 I-16 Rata  44 853 at 50 m. 08.25 Film C. 2035/I Anerk: Nr. 79
Victory №?
22.02.44 Hptm. Egon Albrecht Stab II./ZG 1 B-24  südl. Pilsen: 6.100 m. [Bohemia] 12.50 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.28
Victory №?
23.02.44 Hptm. Egon Albrecht Stab II./ZG 1 B-24  S. Wels: 6.500 m. 12.02 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.35
Victory №?
25.02.44 Hptm. Egon Albrecht Stab II./ZG 1 B-24  40 km. N.N.W. Brück: 6.000 m. 13.11 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.27
Victory №?
12.04.44 Hptm. Egon Albrecht Stab II./ZG 1 B-24  E. Wiener Neustadt: 6.000 m. 12.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.36
Victory №?
26.06.44 Hptm. Egon Albrecht Stab II./ZG 1 B-24  14 Ost N/CO-5: 7.000 m. [N.W. Pressburg] 09.32 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.37
Victory №?
26.06.44 Hptm. Egon Albrecht Stab II./ZG 1 B-24  14 Ost N/CM-6: 6.500 m. [Stockerau] 09.52 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.34

Also, Albrecht WAS NOT StaKa of 1./ZG 1.

11-06-42 Oblt. Albert Heilmayer (seems HE was StaKa of 6./ZG 1 after G.Tonne) was shot down by Flak and killed over Schebekino.

And 12-06-42 Albrecht could became StaKa only of "his" 6./ZG 1, not 1./ZG 1 or 4./ZG 1.

S!

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Hello Eugen,
I really love internet when used for the good.
So you found my other articles at IPMS-Curitiba !
The report of Fw. Tamm was found by author Francis L. Marshal. He has a publishing house, Marshall-Verlag but looks the page is out. Can´t find now... First time I heard of Wolfgang Ortmann was when Francis noticed me the report. Some time latter I could send "in exchange" a new pilot name for his book on the Bf 109 T, Günther Eggebrecht (second updated edition only in German language).
John Vasco published an English translation of this report in his book "Sting of the Luftwaffe". In fact I used John´s one to translate to Portuguese. Since you´re in contact with him I believe he has a copy of it also.
Many thanks for the exciting, to me, new info on Egon victories and Wolfgang last mission. Much appreciated.
I´ll update my files in home. Just hope one day Wolfgang´s last place be found.
Hugs from Rio,

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Here You are: map , showing last combat mission of Kaldrack & Ortmann.

Basary airfield is located near Staraya Toropa town, South of Toropetz.

Salute!

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

I notice that Hptm Egon Albrecht-Lemke is buried together with an unknown, (Ein Deutscher Soldat) in Beauvais Cemetery, could this be his crewman?
Regards
Joe

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

No Joe, "Ein Deutscher Soldat" refeers to Egon itself. At this time he was flying a Bf 109G from JG 76. Many Zerstörer pilots had their units disbanded and some of them joined the single engined fighters. Most interesting that Egon Albrecht and Wolfgang Ortmann where at ZG 1 at same time on Russian front. Who knows they meet toghether?

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

There is a problem for me:

I Know only names and dates of death...

But on that page it need to fill the following form:

Straße / Nr.*:
Land / PLZ / Ort*:

How can I know it? - I dont know :(

2 Sergio - if You will try to find, what mean, for example, this:

 75 272

I will try to confirm Egon's claims with Russian archive sourses.

S!

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Sorry Sergio,
I wrongly thought he was in a Bf 110, any further detailed on his loss?

Regards

Joe

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

It seems that P-51's pilots killed him while he was in parashute... Very often thing with USAAF pilots.

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

2 Sergio - if You will try to find, what mean, for example, this:

 75 272

I will try to confirm Egon's claims with Russian archive sourses.

I guess it may be a location in the "German mapping system" (Planquadratt if I´m not wrong) Not being a "specialist" in any field I hope someone can confirm this and help to identify the places.

It looks I will have to rewrite Egon´s article and that´s good. History means learning again and again and even changing concepts and wrong statements.
:piliot:

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

You are 100% right. Try to use this link :)

Attachment: Reich Defence of II./ZG 1 "Wespe", under command of Egon Albrecht. There is a teble of victoryes.

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Eugen, on your first search on this site, you will have to fill an (Internet) form about you, that is where the above fields should be filled. The assocaition used it to send me mails (postal, not Internet) asking for money but once every 2-3 years IIRC.

Then you will have access to the search engine of the webiste, that only need the three first letters of the name to do a research, but can be completed by given name, date of death, date or birth, etc...

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Thank You, Laurent! Now I will try :)

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Diesing , Ulrich

Geburtsdatum: 12.03.1911
Geburtsort: Trebschen
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 17.04.1945
Todesort: bei Boizenburg

Ulrich Diesing ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Boizenburg (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) .
Endgrablage: Block 2 Reihe 2 Grab 3

Gentzen , Johannes

Geburtsdatum: 04.04.1903
Geburtsort: Neubrandenburg
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 26.05.1940
Todesort:Neuchateau airfield

Johannes Gentzen ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Neubrandenburg-Neuer Friedhof (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) .
Endgrablage: Block Ru Reihe Mi Grab 1

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Viedebantt Helmut

Geburtsdatum: 23.12.1918
Geburtsort: Bonn
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 01.05.1945
Todesort: bei Wusterhausen/Dosse

Helmut Viedebantt wurde noch nicht auf einen vom Volksbund errichteten Soldatenfriedhof überführt oder konnte im Rahmen unserer Umbettungsarbeiten nicht geborgen werden.

Lent Helmut
Geburtsdatum: 13.06.1918
Geburtsort: Pyrehne
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 07.10.1944
Todesort: bei Paderborn

Helmut Lent ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Stade, Garnisons-Fdh. (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) .
Endgrablage: auf diesem Friedhof

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Last mission of Hptm. Karl-Heinz Stricker, Gr.Kdr. I./SKG 210.

Both engines hit on combat mission. Crashed into woods.

4 Kms. north of Akkulitschi railway station.

See lokation of Akulichi station on the attached map.

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Hi Joe,

The words "Ein Deutschen Soldat" on Albrecht's grave is a simple title saying that here lies "A German Soldier". Albrecht was shot down and KIA by P-38s (not P-51s) of the 474th FG on 25 Aug 44. He went down in Bf109G-14, werknummer 460593, "Schwarze 21". Albrecht was leading 30-plus Bf109Gs of III./JG76. They took off from their base at Athis on a freijagd towards the Normandy area. They were escorted by 12 Fw190A-8s of I./JG76 led by Lt. Georg Kiefner.

III./JG76 was heading west and 23 474th FG P-38Js were on a parallel opposite course headed for targets in the Laon area. The 109s dumped their tanks, the P-38s dumped their 500lb. bombs and they met in a head-on pass at around 11,000 feet directly over Cambronne-les-Clermont. The fight was joined a few minutes later by 32 Fw190A-8s of II./JG26 led by Hptm. Emil Lang. 11 474th P-38s went down with III./JG76 losing at least 21 aircraft, 5 shot up, and 2 crashlanding back at Athis.

I am presently trying to locate Albrecht's crash site with the help of several French researchers. We believe his site is 500m west of St. Claude near the small village of Arcy.

Cheers, Gary Koch
474th FG Historian

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Just a slight correction to Gary's posting (a typo no doubt.) Georg Kiefner was the Staffelführer of 1./JG 26, not JG 76.

Tom

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Furthermore on Gary's posting.....I actually believe there are TWO graves mentioned on the gravestone of Albrecht. This is not uncommon on German War Cemeteries to have two names on one stone. This actually means that one of the two is an unknown. "Ein Deutscher Soldat" does not reflect to Albrecht.

Cheers,

John

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Good catch, Tom! Yes it was a typo. I got hamfisted on the keyboard and typed in I./JG76 instead of the correct I./JG26. Does anyone know Georg Kiefner's status? Is he still around? Don Caldwell has corresponded with him but has not heard from him in a long time.I was hoping to contact him about his recollections of the 25 Aug 44 Black Friday fight with the 474th FG.

I also believe that John may be correct in that two bodies are buried at the same gravesite to save space. This is done at American national cemetaries here in the States. Veterans and their spouses are buried on top of each other, not side by side, in order to conserve valuable land area. I have a very good French friend who lives in Beauvais. I will ask him if he can confirm this with officials at the Beauvais German Military Cemetary.

Cheers, Gary

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

I also believe that John may be correct in that two bodies are buried at the same gravesite to save space. This is done at American national cemetaries here in the States. Veterans and their spouses are buried on top of each other, not side by side, in order to conserve valuable land area. I have a very good French friend who lives in Beauvais. I will ask him if he can confirm this with officials at the Beauvais German Military Cemetary.


The info I have only Egon Albrecht is buried there. If a second body was there I guess they could have placed another date for his burial or death. Anyway it would be fine to confirm this.

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Hi,

In this topic it was reported that Wolfgang Schenck has passed away a few years ago. The site www.das-ritterkreuz.de reports him as still alive (see http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de/index_...chword=schenck ).

Does anyone has more information about this matter?

Thanks,

Douglas

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

I was told some years ago, in the late-90s, by more than one former member of the Wespengeschwader that Schenck had passed away. He was never in the GdJ, so his death was not generally reported in Jagerblatt.
The way to check further would be to contact the Marburg authorities where he lived and ask for a check to be run on his name.

Hope this helps.

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Hello,

I´m living near Marburg. I heard from Schenk. In the aktuell telephone book his name was not in. But 11 names with Schenk. I will try to located the grave of schenk.

You hear from me soon.
Regards
Mirko

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Thank You very much!

It will be nise to honour last plase of Hero...

BTW: Is this a photoe showing "Bombo" with his Bf110?

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

@John:Thanks for your reply!

@Mirko: I will wait for any information you may find. Please let us know if you find something.

@Eugen: Yes, it is a picture of Schenck and his Bf110.

Douglas.

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

2 Douglas Jr.: THX for reply, but... Who are there directly Schenck? :) SRY for bad quality of image... May be anybody could attach here better image?

S!

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Yep, that's Schenck and his Bf 110 F, with his Bordfunker Jupp Kehren on the wing.

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Thx John for reply!

Received my message?

I found new photoe of ZG 1 for You, hope it will be new for You to see :)

http://forum.sukhoi.ru/attachment.ph...3&d=1167577868

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Eugen,

I obtained that photo some time ago, and used it in my Classic Publications book, Zerstörer, volume 2.

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Ahhh...

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Hi,


It`s airfield in Krasnodar. I have another picture taken from different perspective with orginal russian depitcion (from the book "Niemieckije asy na wostocznom frontie czast 1 page 98-99).
@ Herr Gross I need your e-mail. I have something about I/ZG1 victories on 11th and 12th May 1940. Please send me PM.

Regards

Robert

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Robert,

Could you post that other picture you have on here? I would be interested to know if it shows the exact variant of Bf 110.

Regards,


John V.

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Hi John,


of course I will send you this photo (as promised in October :o ) but unfortunately it`s focused on the Bf109F and didn`t show the wrack of Bf110.

Regards

Robert

Re: Graves of Zerstorer Experten
 

Hi Robert,

The book you mentioned sounds interesting -- could you please provide some more details, e.g. ISBN, author, publisher, and where you obtained it?

Much appreciated,
Leon Venter