Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Who can give me any information above this aircraft?
It seems to have been shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940 (around 15.00Hrs) during aerial combat. Unit and pilot aren't known to me!!
Thanks

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

8 Ju87b hv been lost on 11.may 1940, all from STG2 all in Belgium, gen around Brussel/St Trond, wn are difficult to spot for that date where it come from ???

Remi

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

What was the target of StG 2 that day?
Thanks,

Alexander

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Are you sure this Wnr 0870387 is one of a JU 87?

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Yes - the beginning 087 gives it away.

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

objectif was obviously St Trond the airfield

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Hi Guys

The "only" problem with this WNr is that it should basically belong to a Ju 87A-1 or A-2. It is known that many A-0/A-1 and A-2 were converted to B-type prototypes, but I am not sure that any conversion were made "en masse" from A to B.
According to Griehl A-2 WNr are known all the way up to 0429. Of course it is not impossible that early B-models were intermixed WNr wise with late production A-models

Anyone who knows more??

Cheers
Stig

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

With a quick look at the losses, I confirm that numerous wn we find there are in this range, I mean around 300/400 they are all listed as B1, from 1940 throughout 1942, basically we find last A is 189 first B1 192, nd no mix, first B2 509, we have also the 5xxx serie that is for oper. units, for the schulen, we find a mix between A nd B from 81 to something like 190

remi

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

I find first B-1 at around same as RT :)
0870387 is then OK by me.

cheers
ed

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Thanks Guys

Again looking into Griehl's Ju 87 book, he states he has checked the log book of a Junkers Works pilot named Harder who is listing testflights in A-2 with WNr 0420, 0423, 0427-0429
He also claims that a total of 262 Antons had been delivered by Summer 1938. That means we simply must have more WNr than 0189 for the A-version.

Perhaps a better listing of the Antons and early Berthas is required?

Cheers
STig

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Hi Stig,
The explanation could be that Peter Achs only has the FB of Fritz Harder, everyone else just has lists (transcripts) that may include errors. Also many W.Nr. stated in Mr. Griel´s many books ´don´t hold water´ ....

cheers
ed

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Hi Stig

I have the Fritz Harder FB list and he only flew ever the few Ju 87 you listed,
420 Flown 3/6/39 for 29 minutes
427 Flown 5/6/39
423 Flown 7/6/39
428 Flown 8/6/39
429 Flown 9/6/39

The FB list does not give the Ju 87 mark but I thought the flight dates may be of interest to somebody. Harder mainly flew Ju 52 and Ju 86 and Ju 88 from 4/5/44 to his last flight on 30/3/45. These flights from Dessau and Bernburg

Tony Jones

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

At that time they are for sure b1 by sept 39 JFM delivered 271 B1 Weser 196,
Pls Tony name of airfield where tries state-placed
I think that JFM use 0xxx serie, Weser 5xxx

For A serie the Lieferplan say that by 01.april 1938 128 hv been deliv. from Junkers, nd plan to further 27 from Junkers nd 70 from Weser, not sure weser delivered them, nd in further plans, no more is said about A, nor production or Umbau..

Remi

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

The Ju 87/0387 was a B according to FB Steckhan. He flew the aircraft in April 1939 at Bernburg.

Regards P. Achs

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Remi

Harder operated from Bernburg from 7/12/37

Tony

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

The Junkers Ju 87 WNr. 87.0387 was a B-1 subtype. For what it's worth, other aircraft with Werknummern in the 038x range were on charge with St.G. 2.

RA

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Thanks Guys

Is there anyone who feels he is up to the task to give a preliminary WNr block listing of the A and B-1/B-2 production?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

If Rabe Anton share his documentation yes...

remi

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Hello There RT!

Documentation for the Ju 87B-1 WNr. 87.0387 may be found in an A.D.I.(K) prisoner-of-war interrogation report from 1940. This document offers information about several Ju 87s of St.G 2 that was found in two logbooks recovered from a Stuka of 3./St.G 2 shot down on 14 Aug. 1940. WNr. 87.0387 was not entered in these logbooks, but others in the 87.038x range were found. These aircraft were of the B-1 subtype.

Additional supporting evidence for the Werknummer range of Ju 87s used in training in 1941-1942 may be found in various Bergungsmeldungen held in the BA-MA. This evidence confirms that the 87.0370-0380 range was assigned to Ju 87B-1s.

RA

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Hello Alexander,

The following two airmen with StG 2 appear on a list named ‘Lijst der in Leuven begraven Duitse soldaten’ translation: list of German soldiers buried at Leuven (Louvain).

54. Heinrich Basler, 1. Stukagesch. Immelman.2, 12-5-40
55. Ernst Chucra, Stuka Immelman, 11-5-40

Source: Stadsarchief Leuven (Archives Leuven)

I don't know whether there is any link between Chucra and Wnr 0870387.

Cheers,
Dirk

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

That makes me wondering how to read the data found on a Ju 87B-1 dataplate.
They were: serie 38701.23/4, Zeichn. 87.324, F.M. 1038.
I am wondering if it is WNr 0324 accepted in October 1938? But what the serie is? A contract no?

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

“87.324” is a Zeichn.Nr. (drawing number) of a part of the “Leitwerk” (tail, aileron etc.) This is not a Werknummer.

Regards P. Achs

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Thanks, so I believe the dataplate is still deep below the ground. Hopefully!

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Thks Rabe, noted the info, just one more year to make alltogether, so Stig you hv to wait a "while"

Remi

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

You are welcome, RT!

RA

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

One question remained where the Wn. hv been found ??

Remi

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Hi !

For the two Luftwaffe crewmembers originally buried at Leuven I found the following information:
Basler was part of the crew of Ju87 w/n 5136, which crashed at Grazen (postalcode 3450). He is presently buried at the German military cemetery at Lommel.
The name of the second crewmember, buried at Leuven, is Chuchra (also presently buried at Lommel).

Best regards from the other side of Belgium

Luc

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Luc,

Sorry but not so. CHUCHRA died on 11 May 1940, BASLER on 12 May 1940 and, incidentally, they were both Bordfunkers.

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Peter,

You are (again) 100 % correct - Chuchra was aboard another aircraft and got killed on 11/05/1940.

I don't have any information about his plane or pilot.

Best regards

Luc

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Luc,

If it takes you only 4 minutes to confirm that I am correct, why 14 minutes earlier do you post such nonsense ? I'm sure there are people out there who read this stuff that expect a reasonable level of accuracy.

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Luc,

I apologise for my earlier comments but I totally misunderstood your previous post. No offence intended - must have been having a 'bad hair day'.

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

5136 was recovered by us on a depth of 6 meters and it was the 5136 due to the identification tag we found .it was not exactly grazen.
I found out that about 6 stuka's from that unit crashed on that day 4 of them ,are already located by me,some did belly landing and were removed by germans a few days later.
kindly regards
phil mertens
junkers@londoner.zzn.com

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Hello

In fact if I remember well this « serial » was give for a Ju-87 of the I.St.G 2 crashed at Attenhoven shot down at 15:00

I don’t know where this serial is coming from

Uffz Hahn Richard (KIA) & Uffz Werk Heinz (KIA)

Regards
Phil

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

5136 crashed at geetbets and not at attenhoven for your info.
at attenhoven that was also a stuka from same unit but not the 5136.
regards
phil m

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

Hello Phil

I was talking about the serial 0870387 not on the WNr-5136

Regards

Phil
P.S still interested by the B-24 debris ? I identified the A/C

Re: Wnr 0870387 shot down above Belgium on 11/05/1940
 

hello phil,
O.K.
misunderstanding .
yes i am still interested
phil m