U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Good morning everyone,
I need your help to know, if possible, information about an attack that U-boat 281 suffered on 17 October 1943.

According to the logbook, which can be found on the NAW archive (T1022 R3047), at about 12:35 am the U-281 was intercepted by a B-24 and a Short S25 Sunderland. The attack lasted a few minutes, then the Sunderland was shot down by on-board anti-aircraft fire.
The B-24 returned, intercepting U-281 again at about 19:11, dropping a few bombs.

At that time U-281 was in sector AK2488 (central co-ordinates 59°09'00 ‘N, 031°00'00 ’W, North Atlantic, east of the southern tip of Greenland).

Is it possible to know to which wing the two aircraft belonged (and also if USAAF or RAF?), knowing the date and position?

It is a complex question but only this forum can help me...;)

Thanks in advance!
Marco

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

The Sunderland appears to be Sunderland JM712, Mk. III from 422 squadron.

Search for JM712 on this page:
https://caspir.warplane.com/aircraft...t-no/200001568

The U-boat was part of a wolfpack attacking convoys ONS 20 and ON 206:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoys_ONS_20/ON_206

RAF Liberator squadrons mentioned in the above actions were
86 Squadron and 59 Squadron and 120 Squadron.

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Absolutely great, thank you so much!!

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Is there a chance to find the same also for the B-24 "Liberator" involved in the attack at U-281 the same day? Oct.17th 1943....

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

According to Clay Blair there were two U-boats involved here, the other being U-470 whose AA was responsible for the Sunderland loss ( the Sunderland ditched near the frigate Drury of ONS-20). U-470 was then attacked and sunk by two B-24s of 120 sqdn. and one of 59 sqdn. Blair does not mention U-281.

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Thank you sir.
Unfortunately I cannot attach the jpeg showing the page...!!

It is correct that the AA gun was not from U-281, but from "Dauter" (Helmut Dauter, U-448). U-281 was sailing near him. Anyway U-281 was attacked by a "Liberator", and some sailors were wounded. No great damages anyway.

It would be very interesting to know something about this B.24 too...

Btw, if something in my translation from U-281 diary is wrong , please correct me...!

Thank you in advance

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Geoffrey Sinclair offers the following

U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please

U-281 shot down a Sunderland of 422 squadron RCAF (F/Lt P T Sargent). on
17 October 1943. B-24 from 59, 86 and 120 RAF squadrons were present,
making a number of attacks and sinking U-964, U-844 and U-470, you would
need to check the squadron records for reports of unsuccessful attacks.

The Coastal Command weekly summary has B-24 reporting 8 attacks plus 2
sightings South West of Iceland on 17 October.

Action around convoy ONS.20.

B Rgds
Geoffrey

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Many thanks!
Are the files of the Coastal Command weekly summary available? Is there a website?

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Another reference:


https://uboat.net/boats/u281.htm

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Blair attributes the sinking of U-844 to 59 (W.J. Thomas) and 86 (E.A. Bland) squadron B-24s, the latter being shot down. U964 was sunk by a B-24 of 86 squadron (G.D. Gamble), with some of the crew being rescued by U-231.

The sinking of U-470 he attributes to H.F. Kerrigan and B.E. Peck of 120, and W.G. Loney of 59.

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Here is the link of NARA T1022 R3047:

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/3386...objectPage=694

Check sheet number 694, among papers of U-281 navigation diary, that is about Oct.17th 1943.

It is clearly shown the Sunderland shot down from "Dauter" (Helmut Dauter, U-448) and the attempt to sink U-281 from a "Liberator". U-281 fired with AA guns. 2 soldiers wounded.

According to the help you all gave me above, it looks that the B-24 belonged to RAF No.120 Squadron. But I cannot find evidence of this....
Anyone can help me?

Is there a possibility to find the RAF Squadrons war diaries concerning U-boot hunt?

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Hi 'Joda87',

The No. 120 Squadron RAF Operations Record Book for October 1943 is available online, at the following locations:

- https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8387141
- https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8387142

You can view the relevant pages at the bottom with watermarks, but if you create a National Archives account (no cost) and sign in, you can download the entire files for free.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Geoffrey Sinclair offers the following additions

Follow up for Joda87, Air 22/164 is the relevant Coastal Command Weekly
Summaries. The 16 and 17 October 1943 submarine attacks take two pages,
(Pictures 383 and 384 in my copy) I do not think 12 O'Clock High allows
photographs.

South West Iceland,
On the 16th two home based B-24 each made two attacks, each B-24
claiming a sinking with survivors in the water while three Iceland based
B-24 also each made two attacks against U-boats. I read it as 5 B-24
each found a U-boat, making 2 attacks on each boat.

On the 17th a home based Sunderland made an attack and was forced to
ditch while Iceland based B-24, 6 different aircraft reported between
them 2 sightings and 8 attacks meaning 3 aircraft each did 2 attacks, as
I read it 2 aircraft were doing second attacks on the same U-boat, 1
aircraft attacked 2 U-boats. An Iceland based Hudson reported a sighting.

Geoffrey

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Thank you si much guys!

Much appreciated as always, great forum indeed ;)

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Dear Andrew,
I tried to dinf on National Archives also the record books for N.59 and No.86 Squadrons, but I didnt find. Mayone they are not online? I find them in the hierarchy but they are not readable.

Maybe I made some mistake?

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Hi Joda87,

No problem, here they are:

- https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8452409
- https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8452409
- https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8454955
- https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8454954

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

Great! Thank you very much! Very kind from you ;)


I wish you a happy Easter day btw !

Re: U-281: B-24 and Sunderland attack, info needed please
 

From UK National Archives HW 13/37, "German Naval Air Activity, Vol.XI, ZIP/947–1038 (Oct 1 1943–Dec 31 1943)"

G.A.F. Sea Reconnaissance and Offensive Activity (Home Area and Atlantic) for 17th October 1943, ZIP/No. 693

3. Anti Coastal Command Patrols by 13./KG 40 from Lorient

7 Ju 88 to take off at 1100 [GMT+1] in 14 West 4833, returning at 1600.
2 aircraft were identified in W/T.

N was plotted in 14 West 772 at 1312 and given a fix in 14 West 6983 at 1335. Aircraft homed on KERLIN BASTARD at 1359.

No information is available concerning aircraft G.

'All landed' signal was made at 1429.

Note: A U.S. LIBERATOR (C of 22 Squadron) was attacked by at least 12 (sic) e/a identified as Ju 88's in 47º 14’ N, 8º 35’ W. The attack was broken off after 17 minutes. 1 E/A was claimed destroyed and 1 damaged.

A C.C. LIBERATOR was attacked by 6 Ju 88's in 46º N, 10º W 1450. Our aircraft gained cloud cover and contact was lost.

The U-Boat Command war diary for 16–31 October 1943 (translated into English) is here: https://www.uboatarchive.net/BDU/BDUKTBOCT43.htm