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In the film "Fighter squadron", we can see in a gun camera footage, the strafing of an italian airfield. On this footage we see a bi fuselage aircraft which is not a FW 189. Could it be the only one Savoia SM.91 ?
Has this aircraft not been transfered to Germany ?

Best

Christian

I have a VHS of that movie but, to the best of my memory, I cannot recall any strafing that could be positively identified as effected on an Italian airfield (there are many sequences cut and pasted from strafings of Japanese airfields, BTW...).

Could you please tell me at what exact timing in the movie is such sequence shown? Thanks.

The sequence is between 1 hour 09' 26'' and 1 h 09' 29'', so you must see it in slow motion.
In the middle of the picture, you can see a He 177 without wing, in the middle of green aircrafts with big white band on fuselage.
At the left of He 177, you san see the bi fuselage aircraft; just below it, a kind of SM 75. Above the He 177, may be a SM 81 (look at the stabilizer's shape).
After, come the japanese sequences.

It is a 3 seconds sequences, but with hold frame, it's quite clear.

Best

Christian

Thanks for the indication. However, if there is an He 177 in the scene, it cannot have been taken in Italy, as those aircraft operated in France (from French airfields, I mean) but were not based in Italy and (AFAIK) never were here.

Tomorrow I'll check the scene (my VHS recorder is out of reach at this hour of the night), but if the presence of the Greif is confirmed, I have very serious doubts that the localization is correct, IMHO.

I remember He 177 of I/KG 40 were utilised at Anzio in june 1944 and bombers were based in Northern Italy. Perhaps one had problem and was forced to stay in Italy.
The planes we can see are in a kind of scrap yard; some stay without one wing or both.

Best

Christian

You are correct that He 177s were used over Anzio bay and bridgehead, but KG 40 was based entirely in France and never in Italy (I studied a bit the subject and I am quite confident in what I say...)

The bases of KG 40 in 1944 results to me the following:

Stab/KG.40 (Bordeaux-Merignac)
1./KG.40 (Tolouse-Blagnac)
2./KG.40 (Bordeaux-Merignac)
II./KG.40 (Bordeaux-Merignac)
7./KG.40 (St.Jean d Angely)
8./KG.40 (Cognac)
9./KG.40 (Cognac)

At any rate, in relation to your hypothesis of an He 177 landed on an Italian airfield in distress and remained there, no data emerged so far from the very few Italian airfields capable of being used by such plane for an emergency landing. And, considering the thorough work of my friend Nick Beale on the ULTRA documents, the absence of any hint of such an event, coupled with the fact that such a landing would not pass unnoticed (all such bases at the time were shared also by ANR personnel), makes me say that, although theoretically possible, the happening of such fact is in reality highly improbable and it is very difficult to determine an identification of the airfield (let alone its nationality) on such basis.

Thus, (given the He 177 as not "logically" connected to any Italian airfield), to determine an airfield as Italian mainly because an S.81 has been apparently identified is at least debatable, considering that such aircraft was found abandoned also on several German airfields.

Moreover, you cannot certainly exclude the possibility that the "twin fuselage" aircraft was nothing but a captured Fokker G1, several exaples of which were used by the Germans.

No sooner I'll be able to check the VHS I will certainly post further comments, but IMHO the starting assumptions could be wrong and this would unavoidably change the ensuing deductions.

Been there, done that. Here are attached two frames from the gun-camera movie. The He 177, the two SM-82s and the SM 81 are visible, as well as the twin-boom aircraft:

http://users.libero.it/f.damico/veltro/Strafing1.jpg

This is a closer frame...

http://users.libero.it/f.damico/veltro/Strafing2.jpg

The S.82s were used in vast numbers by the Germans, so their presence is no surprise. The twin-boom a/c is in very bad conditions (an eventual dark green top camouflage looks completely ruined and/or washed down).

The grain of the film is too coarse and the frames too fuzzy to attempt an identification, although the machine could even be a Gotha Go 242 glider with the front fuselage burnt down (which would also help to explain the tail-heavy attitude...).

Concerning the thoughts about the SM.91 (which could apply also to the SM.92, BTW) both prototypes of the two aircraft were destroyed in an Allied bombardment on Vergiate on 27 December 1944.

The airfield in the images however definitely isn't Vergiate and no He 177 was ever located there (there are extracts of the airfield's log to prove that).

So the ID of the unusual aircraft is still unknown...

Never mind. Thank you very much for your well documented answer.

Best

Christian

Hello,

the Sm91 or the Sm92... I don't remember wich one of the two... was flown to the Rechlin LW Test Center in Germany for test trial by the famous german test pilot Werner Lerche... during the flight to Rechlin he also made a stop on another german airfield... I think it was an airfield around Munich... I've got this info from the Flugbuch of W.Lerche...

Sorry for not being able to give you 100% info but I'ven't got my files here with me...

You are correct. There were two prototypes of the SM.91. The first one was flown to Germany by Werner Lerche on 12 October 1944. The second one remained in Vergiate, together with the prototype of the SM.92 and these two were destroyed on 27 December 1944.

By the way, the twin boom airplane cannot be a Gotha which is a high wing plane, nor a SM 92 which has no central nacelle, which is clearly seen on the photograph. So, it could be only a SM 91 or a Fokker G1. When we compare on the photo, the lenght of the HE 177 with the lenght of the twin boom, the Fokker hypothesis seems to match.
In the book "German secret flight test centres to 1945" H.Beauvais, K.Kössler...we find no mention of SM 91 or 92 tested at Rechlin.

All the best

Christian

Hello,

the Sm91 and the Sm92 were both tested by Werner Lerche and the Sm91 was flown to Reschlin... I had a look to the Flugbuch of Werner Lerche... his opinion of both planes are pubblished on italian books...

The Fokker G1 inspired Ing. Marchetti for the design of the Sm88... an aircraft wich was test flown as Sm91 prototype No.1 and that had a completelly different central nacelle from the Sm91... it had a defensive turret and a bomb bay... Prototype No.1 was destroyed during a test flight and I got photos of the up side down plane and the story from the engineer who had this flight accident... in fact all known photos of the Sm91 are of the second prototype...

Take the above info as they are cause the only probe of wath I wrote lie in my personal archive and there's no known photos of the first prototype of the Sm91 except the one in my possession...

Best regards...