Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

Hello/Bonjour,

The diary of the 1st escadrille of Free French No. 347 Squadron "Tunisie" reports that Lieutenant Courvalin's crew shot down a jet aircraft on 2 November 1944 during a mission over Düsseldorf. The account is quite detailed and gives the impression of actual contact rather than just a fleeting sighting by an isolated man. Was the Me 262 deployed on a mission that night? Perhaps aircraft from Erprobungskommando 262? As Kommando Welter had not yet entered into operations, right?

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

At the moment I can only think of I./KG 51 (Rheine) and Kommando Nowotny (Achmer) as active Me 262 units on 2 November. Düsseldorf would have been in range for either but I don't know of evidence for them flying at night.

Re: Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

Hello Nick,

Thank you for the reply. The 10./NJG 1 later flew on Me 262s, and in my opinion, the two units you mentioned were only supposed to fly during the day. In any case, there is no evidence of night flights for both.

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

Bonjour Fredéric,

the only units which flown on this date were Kdo. Nowotny and K.G.(J) 51. No known losses regarding combats with bombers.
The bomber crews reports shows a lot of sightings of "jet propelled aircraft" or other exotic aircrafts and combats with it.

À bientôt
René

Re: Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

Hello René,

Merci beaucoup for this clarification, and it seems to me that Kommando Nowotny and K.G.(J) 51 only flew during day, right?

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

As far as i know, neither flew at night — Kommando Nowotny seemed to have quite enough problems learning to operated the Me 262 in daylight.

Also, KG 51 was not designated KG(J) — it was not on the 23 November 1944 list of bomber units designated for conversion to the fighter role:

Stab/KG 6 I./KG 6 II./KG 6 III./KG 6

Stab/KG 27 I./KG 27 II./KG 27 III./KG 27

Stab/KG 30 I./KG 30 II./KG 30

Stab/KG 55 I./KG 55 II./KG 55 III./KG 55

All of those had been withdrawn from bomber operations in September, KG 51 remained operational on the Me 262 all the way through.

Re: Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

Hi, By November 2, 1945 there were no night fighting ME262s. Only day fighting. The convertion of the ME262 to fly single seated by night were starting at test facility Rechlin and there is a entry in the KTB from Rechlin, that the tests were conducted and marked as succes (ready for night fighting missions) on November 22, 1945.

So there were NO night fighting over Düsseldorf by early November 1945 or at any other time for that matter.

The later night fighting with ME262s were done over Berlin and were carried out by 10./NJG11, first known as Kommando Welter.

Re: Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

I did not write that these units flew at night.

Yes of course the K.G. 51 don't receive the additional designation "(J)". My mistake.

The K.G. 54 is missing from the enumeration.

Rgds,

Re: Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

Hello/Bonjour,

Many thanks, gentlemen, for these discussions. So, to return to my initial question, we can safely say that on 2 November 1944, no Me 262s were used in night missions. BTW mig2830, typing error(?), as I believe it should read 1944 rather than 1945.

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

Yes, typing error, 1944 it is

Re: Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

Hi Frederic.

The 347 Sqn crew did not encounter any Me262.

The event you described happened on a night (2-3 November 1944) when Bomber Command crews reported 25 sightings of jet- or rocket-propelled phenomena and No. 4 Group Halifax crews claimed eight of these destroyed during a raid on Düsseldorf. The sightings occurred along the route of the bomber stream from Antwerp, eastward to Eindhoven, through to Düsseldorf, and then south-westward over Aachen and down to Marche-en-Famenne in Belgium. Major J.A. Porter - the Royal Artillery Flak Liaison Officer with No. 1 Group - flew as a passenger in a 460 Squadron Lancaster for the raid on Düsseldorf. During the sortie, his experienced eye recorded two bright projectiles leaving condensation trails from the launch of probable V2 rockets. He also saw many bright lights crossing the sky horizontally at great speed, which he attributed as air-to-air fired projectiles. Major Porter noted one projectile tailed off and curved toward the ground after streaking across the sky.

On the night of 4-5 November 1944. Bomber crews reported 54 sightings of jet- or rocket-propelled aircraft. These sightings led to 34 air combats and claims of 21 jet- or rocket-propelled aircraft destroyed and three damaged. The geographical distribution of sightings followed a similar pattern to those reported on the night of 2-3 November. They occurred along the route of the bomber stream from Zwolle in the Netherlands, westward to Ibbenbüren, and then southward over Münster, across the Ruhr, and down to Marche-en-Famenne in Belgium.

Bomber Command headquarters investigated the validity of the bomber crew claims to ascertain if the Germans were using Me262 and Me163 aircraft at night. After evaluating all available evidence, Bomber Command finished its investigation by 6 November 1944, and concluded the phenomena encountered were types of expendable projectile other than manned jet- or rocket-propelled aircraft. When analysing the 34 combats resulting in 21 aircraft destroyed on 4-5 November, Bomber Command headquarters made the following observations based on detailed crew reports:

1. bomber crews reported seeing the outline of an aircraft in only six out of 21 combats leading to a claim of a jet or rocket aircraft destroyed.

2. bomber crews reported seeing the glow or flame of an assumed propulsion unit in 15 out of 21 combats leading to a claim of a jet or rocket aircraft destroyed.

3. bomber crews reported seeing the glow or flames from assumed twin propulsion units in only two out of 21 combats leading to a claim of a jet or rocket aircraft destroyed.

4. bomber crews reported the jet or rocket aircraft opening fire in only three out of 34 combats.

5. of the 21 aircraft claimed as destroyed, bomber crews reported 11 exploded in mid-air, six fell in flames, and two dived into the ground without the bomber crews opening fire.

Crucially, not one bomber crew reported witnessing the unexplained phenomena shoot down other aircraft and no Bomber Command aircraft returned home with damage inflicted in such an attack.

It's worth pointing out that Bomber Command headquarters did not confirm/award any of the nighttime heavy bomber air combat claims against jet-/rocket-propelled aircraft made between November 1944 and May 1945 - 77 destroyed, 9 probably destroyed, and 9 damaged.

The most likely explanation is that the bomber crews were witnessing various types of German Optische Hilfsmittel (visual aids) used to visually mark the position and course of British heavy bomber streams. These visual aids became increasingly necessary due to British jamming of German radio communications.

Re: Nachtjagd fitted with Me 262 / November 1944
 

Hello/Bonjour RodM,

This is a very informative and interesting addition to my initial question. I reread the report of Lieutenant Courvalin crew, and it only mentions one jet of flames... a Me 262 would have left two jets of flames. Thank you.

Best regards,
Frederic