Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=290045366556



& Unrelated


http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150056559560

Thanx,

Rob Romero

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Unrelated:

Bf 109 E-3 from 5./JG 77 most likely Fornebu Norway 1940
Pilot possible Hackl or Menge


Best from Norway
Olve Dybvig

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Hello Rob.

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=290045366556

This item show the 109 of the Gruppenkommandeure of I./ JG 54 Hubertus von Bonin at Campagne les Guines during the Battle of Britain. This photo was taken the 7th september 40, 2 days after that the pilot got 2 victories, to climb his score at 8 victories. His personal emblem came form the 3rd staffel of J/88 where Von Bonin was his last Staffel Kapitan, he replaced Molders.

Thank you.

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Hello Rob
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150056559560

I don't know who was the pilot of this 109, but it belong to 5/JG 77 at the time where the Staffel Kapitan was Hptm. Alfred von Lowijewski between the 6th april 40 and august of the same year. The emblem came also from the Legion Condor but from the 2nd staffel and Alfred von Lowijewski was his last leader from 11/38 to 05/39

Thank you.

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Hello,
Neither Menge or von Bonin belongued to the 'tophatters' of 2.J/88.
In the other hand the motto 'Hümmel-Hümmel' suggest the pilot being from the Hamburg area.
Was Alfred 'Loje' Lojewski from there? As said by Many, Loje commanded the 2.J/88 so had the right to sports the Zilinderhut in his kite.

Regards
Fran

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Thanks Fran, but acording to my info Alfred 'Loje' Lojewski (2) was only credited with two victories in Spain and the aircraft in question sports 4 victory Bars. Hackl had 4 victorie with 5/JG77 by 27 Jun 40 -could this be him?

Rob

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

More info on 5./JG 77 can be found here:

http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1940/JG77/JG77.html

Best
Olve Dybvig

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Hi,


the "blank" (without motling) camouflage of this plane suggest early stage of war over Norway.
For me it is not a plane of Hackl. Could be Menge or Struckmann. They claimed both their 4th victory on 24.04.40.

Regards

Robert

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Neither Hackl, Menge nor Struckmann were in Spain with the Tophatters of 2./J88, so falling from listing...
Furthermore, according to Osprey Aircraft of the Aces-Bf109D/E aces 1939-41 book, Robert Menge claimed four Blenheims IV's during the disastrous Aalborg raid on 13 Aug. aboard the 'Black 1'

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Dear all,

please remember that claims of the LC were not listed
with victory bars on tails!

With the best wishes,
Sven.

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Yes, victories in Spain were on behalf of another airforce of another country, so can not be shown in the own nation abschussbalken.
Regards

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

"Neither Hackl, Menge nor Struckmann were in Spain with the Tophatters of 2./J88, so falling from listing...Furthermore, according to Osprey Aircraft of the Aces-Bf109D/E aces 1939-41 book, Robert Menge claimed four Blenheims IV's during the disastrous Aalborg raid on 13 Aug. aboard the 'Black 1' "

While the tophat is indeed associated with Spanish service, I think, in this case, 5./JG 77 also used it as a Staffelbadge.

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Yes this is staffelbadge.
It started to disappear in August 1940 - perhaps it was connected with changing of Staffelkapitaen.

Robert

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Probably not Menge. His 4. and 5. victory was on the same day
Ofw Anton Hackl is more likely, his 4. was on 17.6.1940

Best
Olve Dybvig

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

So based on the following:

-WWII vics (not Spanish Civ War)
-4 not 2 or 5 vic bars painted
-2/J88 emblem is 5/JG77 emblem and not personal emblem.

I’m back to Hackl right?

P.S. Edgar Struckmann’s 5 JG77 victories are not listed http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1940/JG77/kills.html so is his inclusion here an error?

Thanx,

Rob

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

I think IMHO the Top Hat it's not a Staffelbadge but a personal one and it's located where these are usually painted, in the cockpit area.
Furthermore, If it were the 5./JG77 Staffelbadge why Menge did not painted it in his Me109?? (see the attached picture)
In my oppinion, the pilot must be a veteran of 2./J88 in Spain and from the area of Hamburg because the motto: 'Hümmel-Hümmel'. Features that does not meet Hackl born in Regensburg.

Regards

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Hi,


so why the black hat emblem was carried by black: 2,3,4,5,8 etc.?
Your profil shows Bf109 from late August 1940 when this staffel emblem started to disappear from the planes ( could be connected with change of Staka - Loijewski/Jung) and the fuselages were heavly mottled.
Now victories:
- 5/JG77 Fw.Robert Menge #4 24.04.40 07.40 Hudson 220 RAF N7285
- 5/JG77 Lt.Edgar Struckmann #4 24.04.40 07.40 Hudson 220 RAF N7286

Source: J.Prien "JFV Teil.3" page 22

Regards

Robert

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

According to http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1940/JG77/kills.html only 3 pilots (Menge, Hackl & Petermann) are viable candidates.
-However Menge scored his 4 & 5th on the same day.
-Petermann scored his 4th, 5th & 6th victories on the same day.
-Hackl scored his 4th on 17 Jun 40.
-Vic Bars are for WWII vics (not Spanish Civ War)
-Bf 109E photo is of ‘Black 4’ –not Menge’s ‘Black 1’
-2/J88 emblem is 5/JG77 emblem and not personal emblem (Menge being an exception by late Aug 40?).

So I’m back to Hackl right?

P.S. Edgar Struckmann’s 5 JG77 victories are not listed with II/JG77s http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1940/JG77/kills.html so is his candidacy an error?

Thanx,

Rob