Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

I have a question to the Luftwaffe losses August 1944 in France. How much planes and fighters were lost there? For June and July i have figures around 800-1000 plane losses.

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

The book 'La Luftwaffe face au debarquement allié' identified 419 fighters and recon Bf 109/Fw 190 losses in August 1944 over France (both north and south), but this list is only a part of the losses as most of aircraft lost when the pilot bailed out unijured, or when the AC was destroyed on the ground, or when it was unserviceable and destroyed/abnadonned by retreating Germans won't be listed.

Also this number didn't include any bomber, transport, nightfighter, etc...

Michael Balss book on NJG losses (vol 1) lists 19 losses over France for August 1944.

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

This mean 419 is the figure for 109/190 pilots who suffered from the damage of there plane? Means KIA, WIA, MIA and POW?

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

They are listed as losses.... no % damage given, and in some cases the pilot was unhurt (bailed out, or the AC was destroyed on the ground).

I think that almost all of these 419 losses will be classed on the destroyed (60% damage and more) categories. Maybe some of these losses were WIA pilots returning with damaged AC, but not much. On the other hand this figure is not complete.

Another way to count will be to go to Michael Holm's Luftwaffe site and use the monthly reports of each unit that was in France at the time.

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

Hello Laurent,

I already tried that before and it's not very accurate because "during 8.44 some of the data from Luftflotte 3 was lost" and the Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen is not complete.

Regards,
Olivier Bacca

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

Hi.

The best way to do this is to use the Summarische Verlustemeldungen for the period.

Find which units operated in France, and you have the answer quite easily.

You only need about two weeks in the BA/MA...

Regards,
Andreas

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

Lorant's book also has a list of wrecked/abandoned Bf 109s and Fw 190s in France, found by Allied Technical Intelligence Teams.

To get a fuller picture of all types of abandoned machines however, you'd need to go the the original ATI reports in the National Archives at Kew. Most but not all of these are on AIR40/45.

My website also lists about 70 abandoned aircraft from II./TG 1, KG 26, 6./KG 77, III./KG 100, 2./NAG 13, 1.(F)/33, JG 200, II./JG 77 and JGr. 200 - all units involved in the campaign in the South of France in August 1944:

Go to http://www.ghostbombers.com/index.html click "Operation Dragoon: August 1944" and when you get to that page, click on "Appendices".

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

Hello Gentlemens, hello Jens.
As follows may be interesting, may be not.
Within some time counting LW losses in June 1944 both in France and in Germany checking Groehler figures. Method as Andreas Brekken said.
For France counted 958 Bf109/FW190 and ZG/NJG fighters destroyed.
596 by enemy action and 362 without.
Figures for losses in Germany suffered lack of info about Ein./JG104/106/108, but 263 counted against Galland' 166 mentioned in 17.8.44 Report.

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

Thanks for the figures, these are twice the number of losses in June and July IIRC.

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

Quite interesting these figures from France in August 1944:

958 single engined fighter lost
586 were lost due enemy
362 were lost without enemy

according to Luftwaffe document "Flugzeugbewegungen Jagdverbände Oktober 1944" in august 1944
1.073 were lost due enemy
652 without enemy

This would meant in France were lost due enemy "only" 54% of the month and without enemy 55%.

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

Hello Gentlemens, Hello Jens.
You mentioned very interesting figure and document.
My figures not extracted from direct LW document, but counted by every unit and included Bf109 from NAGr13, FW190 from SG4 as their pilots achieved some claims against allied planes. And not for August, but for June.
Let me be excused for misunderstanding, but I wrote that figure may be not interested, ast counted for June.

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

Sorry i overread that, my mistake.

958 single engine losses in June? Thats much higher than other document figures. According to other figures of documents LW lost "only" 808 planes of all types [RL2/v3115].
From what source did you counted, "Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen"?

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

Hello Jens,
Excuse me, I lost this thread.
Let me wish you Merry Christmas and Haooy New Year!
So, countting by Bestand u. Bewegungsmeldungen (from M. Holm's site) total losses in France and Germany amounted for June 1944 as follows:
destroyed by enemy/without enemy/total
1-eng. day fighters : 684 / 399 / 1083
2-eng. day fighters : 92 / 46 / 138
total : 776 / 445 / 1221
As I cold divided above figures between Germany itself and France I received follows figures (both for single and twin engined):

destroyed by enemy/without enemy/total
Germany : 180 / 83 / 263
France : 596 / 362 / 958
total : 776 / 445 / 1221

NJG planes not included.
As you mentioned Luftwaffe lost 808 planes of all types [RL2/v3115]. And Gallands report dated 17.8.44 about Reich Defence indicate June 1944 figure of only 166 destroyed single and twin engined fighters (due to or wiyhout enemy action).
Seems difference between figures too much.

Re: Question Luftwaffe losses France 1944
 

Dear Shikov,

happy new year, interesting difference indeed.