Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

Colleagues.

I read in the 61 Squadron war log that on August 19, 1942, three Lancasters failed to return from a bombing mission against German blockade runners in the Bay of Biscay, and another Lancaster failed to return the following day. German anti-aircraft gunners claim only one aircraft shot down. Could you please tell me what air cover these ships had and which German pilots distinguished themselves?

sergey

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

There were no nightfighters operating over the Bay at this time and day fighters were more involved with countering Operation Jubilee. The only fighter claim was by Zers.St/Ku.Fl.Gr 106 for the 61 Sqn ac on 20 Aug 42 at 1649hrs and which crashed at Pontedorna in Spain. It also shot down one of the attackers flown by Oblt Adolf Runge which crashed off Caion

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

The three aircraft were
R5563, R5605 and R5661

Was No 61Sq for some reason detached from Bomber Command during this raid?

Reason I ask is that these three losses are not included by Chorley in his loss book.

B Rgds
Stig

PS: The loss given by Chris should be R5543 which is also not in Chorley's book. How come?

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

61 Squadron

On 16/07/42 a detachment went to St Eval under Coastal Command control on anti-submarine patrols. It stayed there until 27/07/42.

The detachment returned to St Eval 03/08/42 Lost four aircraft attacking the ss Corunna off Spanish coast. Detachment returned to Syerston 22/08/42

As ever Chorley is correct

Martin

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

Thanks Martin

My problem with that was nothing showed up in my Coastal Command unit book.
Twelve + 20 days, not worth recording obviously.:(

Were these detachments common practice, or was this a one off occurrance?

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

10 OTU carried out a number of such missions as well suffering a number of losses

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

Thanks Chris

After asking my question I looked in the book the Cinderella Service by Hendrie and although no
list of attached units is there, the Order of Battle dates contain some of these units.
Your 10 OTU is included on one of those days, while 61 Sq is not.

However it shows more units including some Royal Navy ones, so obviously nothing unique as such.

But back to Aug 19th 1942, I wonder what caused the three losses?
S/S Corunna does not sound like it was bristling with AA-guns, but perhaps it was escorted by vessels
that were?
Something must have caused these three Lancasters to vanish. With no Luftwaffe claims, AA-fire seems
the only plausible explanation, unless we believe all three flew into the sea...

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

Hello, colleagues. The 61 Squadron war diary states that Lancasters flew anti-ship patrols daily from August 16th to 21st inclusive. On August 19th, the target of seven Lancasters was "a tanker off the northern coast of Spain," but in reality, they were the blockade runners WESERLAND and UKKERMARK attempting to break out into the ocean. They were sailing separately and unescorted, so the British attacked both ships, but until the next day they believed they were attacking only one. The SKL KTB the anti-aircraft gunners' claim for only "one Liberator shot down" (the Liberators did not participate in the attacks). Each blockade runner was armed with one 105mm and four 40mm or 20mm guns.

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

Still just the one fighter claim so Flak or accident

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

Of the four Lancasters that returned on August 19, three reported attacking a target from 3,000 feet, and one of them was damaged by anti-aircraft fire. It's hard to imagine that three (!) four-engine bombers were shot down by small-arms anti-aircraft fire from merchant ships.

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

Aircraft R.5661 reported a target and intended to attack, after which contact was lost. It was likely shot down. But the other two...

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

Were these detachments common practice, or was this a one off occurrance?

The following had detachments with Coastal in 1942
44 Sqn 6/42-6/42
51 Sqn 5/42-10/42
61 Sqn (as listed in previous post)
77 Sqn 5/42-10/42
405 Sqn 10/42-3/43
10 OTU 8/42-7/43

Plus 58, 144, 304, 311 and 455 Sqns that left BC and never came back

Martin

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

As Martin says a number of Sqns were detached (see Bloody Biscay) but the diligence of the F540 writers varies

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

Thanks Guys

Cheers
Stig

Re: Who shot down 4 Lancasters over the Bay of Biscay on August 19-20, 1942
 

From my own experience regarding squadrons dispatched from UK to MTO for short durations, the ORB writer seems to often remain at the UK base, and so the ORB often has close to nil about detachment operation. More can be sometimes found in the appendices (when available) with reports made by the detachment.

Maybe it is the same for BC squadrons going on small detachments with CC (that usually include a change of base).

Regarding the 61 Sqn losses for 19 August 1942, you can see the German point of view here: https://archive.org/details/wardiary...e/226/mode/2up (and next pages). Weserland claimed one shot down around 1745 hrs and Uckermack claimed another between 2245 and 2300 hrs. A possibility for the other loss was that the 61 Sqn crew, not used to fly over Biscay as the CC crews, get lost and ended in the sea without enemy action.
Anyway checking Form 541 in 61 Sqn ORB may help to know the time period when aircraft were lost, as there is a 6 hour difference between German ships claims, and possibly identify one of these losses.