Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

Hello,
I am seeking details of the loss of Guenter SCHWARZ.

He is recorded in the CWGC as date of death 5 October, 1942.and is buried at Cannock Chase German Military Cemetery.

However it seems that he was buried firstly at Shoreham-By-Sea Cemetery.

The only Guenter SCHWARZ that I can find was in later years of WW2.

Alex

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

His rank was Flieger and yes he was buried at Shoreham. I can see no loss that matches so perhaps one for Matti

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

One strange thing with this man is that he is not listed by the Volksbund. So far all German dead I found buried in Channock Case war cemetery were.

There is a picture of his grave available online: https://fr.findagrave.com/memorial/1...hoto=125145836

I found nothing interesting on Volksbund, in fold3 German death cards or in Luftwaffe loss lists (checked in October or September 1942).

By the way, I searched the man buried in the same grave, Uffz Karl Johann Graf. Volksbund had him listed as dying on 2 June 1942 at sea off England, but the fold3 death card (https://www.fold3.com/image/69266159...tion-1939-1948) has only 1942 as his death date and say that his body was recovered at sea near the coast on 2 June 1942 and was buried at Shoreham-by-Sea two days later. I checked the book "The Blitz then and now, vol 3" and there is only one Uffz K Graf listed in the index: he was lost on 25 April 1942 when the Do 17Z Wnr 2507 of 12./KG 2 was shot down at sea at 2345 hrs by a Beaufighter of 219 Sqn flown by Sqn Ldr J G Topham and Flt Lt Strange. Two crew are still missing (Uffz S Kuglat and Gefr K Küster), two were recovered from the sea, Uffz K Graf and Uffz H. O. Jansen.

This later is Uffz Hans-Oskar Jansen. Volksbund shows his death date as 2 June 1942, as for Graf, but his grave in Channock Chase shows the real loss date, 25 April 1942. See https://fr.findagrave.com/memorial/1...s-oskar-jansen.

By the way this page points on another saying that the pilot was actually Uffz Heinz Kukla and that his body was found on French shore and buried in Normandy (https://fr.findagrave.com/memorial/1...iegfried-kukla).

All that to say that dates listed by CWGC and Volksbund are not always right.

Still no idea of when, where and how Günter Schwarz died.

I have also checked:
1) the Luftwaffe loss lists available here (http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/covers..._wk2_index.htm) for all available KG units, without success.
2) the Crewlisten database of the Historisches Marinesarchiv (https://historisches-marinearchiv.de.../eingabe.php); just in case a sailor washed on UK shore was taken as an airman, but again no Schwarz lost in 1942 seems to fit.

Good luck for this search

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

If buried first at Shoreham, perhaps local history has more? See https://shorehambysea.com/shorehams-war/

Leendert

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

Nothing in Shoreham records. Strange also no DoB both when he was at Shoreham and now Cannock. He was buried alongside Graf at Shoreham as well

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

The NA gives another possibility, unless already explored and referred to in # 5:

Reference: UD/SH/27/7

Title: Register of War Service Burials, Mill Lane and Old Shoreham Cemeteries
Description:
This volume contains original entries for German personnel interred at Mill Lane, 1940 - 1944, and English personnel interred at Old Shoreham, 1940 - 1942. Some of these burials were later moved, however, and so in 1967 the volume was entered with an up-to-date list of all service graves in each cemetery from either World War

Date: 1940-1967
Held by: West Sussex Record Office, not available at The National Archives
Language: English


Leendert

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

I have not this Guenter Schwarz connected to any aircraft loss. It could be a boating accident or similar.

Matti

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

Thank you Gentlemen for you responses. Most welcome.
Sadly it has not brought me the response that I had hoped for.
So somehow I must try to make contact with the West Sussex Record office.
Sincere thanks
Alex

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

Just checked the 142 German buried at Cannock Chase with a death date listed in 1942, and all have a DoB except Schwarz, 3 buried as unknown and one misidentified as "R Kerschnet" (possibly Kadet-Ingeneer Rolf Kürschner of destroyer Z8).

It is probable that "Gunther Schwarz" was identified as such when found by the British, presumably on 5 October 1942, but was misidentified and no corresponding name was found in missing lists provided by the German.

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

Strangely he doesn't get a mention in the Air Ministry list of German burials in UK

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

If there was a body of a German serviceman found, shouldn't the Red Cross have communicated that to their German opposite numbers?

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

Just to update -
He may have been an aboard ?
1942
On October 1st
V 2003 Loodsboot 7 was torpedoed and sank in the North Sea. 21 crew killed.
Then
On October 2nd
he "Hans Rolshoven" a Seaplane tender was sunk when she hit a mine off Denmark.
So he may have been on one of these ships ?

There doesn't seem to have been any enemy aircraft claims (Fighter Command) made between the 2nd and 9th October '42. Maybe the weather was bad ?
I Have no idea where to find claims by AAA ground units or any brought down by Balloon Sqdns ?

Alex

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

2/3 days to get from Denmark to the sea off Shoreham highly unlikely

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

According German Kriegsmarine reports, Vorpostenboot V2003 next to her sinking suffered 21 missing sailors indeed. See https://catalog.archives.gov/id/3393...objectPage=372

Names of missing here: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/3393...objectPage=394
No Günter Schwarz among them (Günther Schütte?)

Confrontation with British M.T.Bs was off Terschelling, also a bit far from Shoreham...

Leendert

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

Flugsicherungschiff 'Hans Rolshoven' was sunk SW of Bornholm, so in the Baltic (Ostsee).

See https://catalog.archives.gov/id/339390673?objectPage=6

Leendert

Re: Seeking details of Guenter SCHWARZ
 

Yes, but if he was misidentified, the German would have a hard time correcting it as hundred of airmen and sailors were lost in the Channel in the preceding months and he could be any of them.