Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

June 30, 1941 was a successful day for Rumanian Hurricanes, which claimed ten Soviet 'Grumman' :) fighters over Ismail-Tulcea zone, nearby the River Danube, in three different dogfights.
Does anyone know details from the Soviet side? Probably, the fighters belonged to the Black Sea Fleet (ChF), maybe 96 OIAE?

What aircraft could have been this 'Grumman'? Perhaps the I-153 biplane?

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Either a bad translation or the pilots had a little to much to drink.

Grumman produced the Wildcat, Hellcat and Avenger for lend-lease, and none went to the Soviet Union.

BTW, all Grumman aircraft were radial engined aircraft.

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Denes, Look at at the design of the U.S. Navy Grumman F3F which they might have mistaken the I-153 on looking through an aircraft ID book.

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

I think that this may be the answer, at the same time the Germans were claiming tens of "Martin bombers" (SB-2) and "Curtiss fighters" (I-153), so this wouldn't be surprising.

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Dénes
do you know the names of the pilots (rumanians hurricanes) claiming ten "grumman" fighters june 30,1941
thanks

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Yes. Here they are:
Adj. sef. Andrei Radulescu,
Adj. stag. Eugen Camenceanu,
Adj. stag. Constantin Popescu,
Adj. stag. Constantin Pomut,
Adj. stag. Petre Cordescu,
Adj. stag. Petre Hanceanu,
Serg. Nicolae Culcer

Do you have any info from the Soviet side?

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Grumman F3F is radial engined monoplane, with wing in middle of fuselage. Also, fuselage was fery short but thick.

Look on I-16 Rata :) SAME discription :) Short but thick monoplane :)

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Hello Eugen
Grumman F3F was USN's last biplane fighter. You are probably thinking Grumman F4F-3, -3A or -4, ie Wildcat, which was a fat, stocky mid-wing fighter.

All the best
Juha

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Oh, really.. :)

Yes, my typing mistake :) Very late here in Russia, almost sleeping...
Siluets...
"Grumman"
http://www.vectorsite.net/avwcat_3.png

"Rata"
http://aeroram.narod.ru/samolet/i-16-29.jpg

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

The Rata was misidentified as a Curtiss, during the Spanish Civil War. However, the Grumman FF-1 did see service in that war, so could have entered the Axis recognition guides that way. My opinion is that the likeliest type is the I-153, but are there any other reports of the Romanians claiming Grummans, or indeed recognising the I-153 as what it was? One example is likely to be misleading.

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

AFAIK "Curtiss" in german claims in Spain and early 1941 meaned "I-15", because germans always called I-16 as "Rata"

I-153 "Chayka" (SeaGull) was a Biplane, and... not looks like "Grumman" F4F :)

IMHO those "Grummans" was just I-16 :)

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

thanks Dénes for the names of rumanians pilots
I have no information of soviet side but I inquire

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

If you think about what prominent feature would make the Romanian pilots think "Grumman", then it has to be a retractable undercarriage on a biplane. The I-153 certainly does not look like the F4F, but in the heat of combat it could be mistaken for the Grumman FF-1, the Grumman SF-1, the Grumman F2F or the Grumman F3F. These don't look a lot like the I-153 to our better-informed, more relaxed, eye, with time to think and consider, but then the I-16 doesn't look much like the F4F either.

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Eugen, Do you or anyone on the Russian Forum have any records on the Russian side as to the 3 dogfights that day in that area? It would be interesting to see how many Hurricanes were claimed by them compared to overall actual losses.

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Oki, I'll ask :)

I am a bit busy now, working on 23th Aug.1942, combat over Gorodische/Stalingrad. Trying to confirm some german and russian claims...

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Yes, that would be great if you could ask around, as information on the 96 OIAE, based on Izmail airfield, in Southern Bessarabia, close to the Danube's estuary, is very scarce (except for the openiong day of war, 22 June 1941).

Thanks,

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Hi all!

I've received a short answer from Sukhoy Forum:

This means: 96th Detached Fighter Avia Squadron of VVS BlackSea Fleet.

Photoe of I-15bis (I-152).
http://www.airpages.ru/img/i15bis_3.jpg

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Thanks for your effort, Eugen.
Can you ask them if any of the ten victory claims on June 30, 1941 can be verified by Soviet losses?

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

At this point any radial engined aircraft could be "mistaken" for a Grumman fighter. Even if Graham is correct, the FF-1 "FiFi"was a good size two seater. Some FF-1 aircrat reached Spain, but was designated as the G-23 Delfin and made by CCF in Canada. At least one Republican aircraft (AD-001) was captured by the Nationalist and repainted in nationalist markings. The F2F or the F3F does look a little closer to a small bi-plane fighter.

http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...G23_Delfin.jpgSEE: http://www.is.northropgrumman.com/ga...cal/index.html

http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerz...G23_Delfin.jpg

http://www.is.northropgrumman.com/ga...es/ff-1_31.jpg

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Denes

You list seven pilots, but state 10 victories. This means some claimed more than one. Care to share with us which pilots who did?

I cannot find this combat in your Osprey book about the aces

Cheers
Stig

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Denes, I found one site that had some info on the 96 OIAE Chf commanded by Kapt. Aleksandr Ivanovich Korobitsyn. The only thing that it had for that time was that on the 22Jun41 they made a claim of shooting down 5 Rumanian Bombers.

Re: Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...
 

Thanks, Nokose, but I already knew that published info.

I am actually looking for some archival info on the activity of this naval fighter squadron between June and July 1941, including the peak day of 30 June.