That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

Guys:

I have been hearing good things about that new multi volume unit history of JG300 by Laurent & Goyat; well...The JEWELS of my collection of LW reading material is the JG26 War Diary and the JG26 unit history by Caldwell---the combination of both the personal recollections, the history, context AND the information from the 'other side' makes it an invaluable asset to me---it's my yardstick by which I measure all others---anything that comes close becomes a 'must buy/must read';
SO....in purely subjective terms, how does 'JG300' stack up? I don't mean to denigrate or put down anyone's work...I just want your opinions;

Thanks, ahead of time--and sorry if I ruffle any feathers;

NickM

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

Nick, I will keep this answer short as only a few words are needed IMHO.
if you love Caldwell´s stuff, you will die for the JG-300 history!
this is basically the best book on WW2 fighter aviation I have ever come across, it even beats Urbanke´s Greenhearts history, my past favourite.

so if you dont find spending nearly 100 Euros for a single aviation book insane, go and get it!!!

cheers
phil

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

Sounds like neither of you guys have ever seen the work of Mr. Prien and his team....

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

I won't compare Lorant's book with Prien's, as I didn't own them, but I can make the comparaison between Lorant and Caldwell.

Lorant is IMOO better because there are far more personnal recollections or reports, and the fate and action of individuals are the main part of the book. While JG 26 book may be compared to a unit war diary with some first-hand accounts and references to the Allied side (with also first-hand accounts), Lorant books have combined the unit war diary with a huge number of personnal recollections and documents.

As for giving the view from the other (Allied) side, Lorant is providing data on Allied losses and claims, but it is difficult to compare with Caldwell IMOO. Lorant will often give more precise data from the Allied side (as location, time, sometimes names of Allied fighter pilots lost) but won't try as much as Caldwell to check who shot down who... Most of the times JG 300 was involved in big battles against 8th Air Force, and in these battles trying to determine who met who is IMOO harder than for tactical missions. I have also to say that I don't agree at 100% with Caldwell's identifications of victims and killers of JG 26 pilots, as do other historians (by the way, Caldwell is an historian and I'm not).

Loss lists in JG 300 book are more complete (in the sense that aircraft losses will be listed even if the pilot was OK, as are ground losses) and include the percentage of damage, and also damaged AC.

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

To give a rating;

Caldwell's JG 26 War Diary: 8 out of 10.
Lorant JG 300 Vol. 1 ( I am waiting for Vol. 2): 9 out of 10.

cheers,

John.

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

Nick,

..would love to add something to this thread....but I guess I better not go over the top. Suffice it to say that I too reach for Caldwell & Prien when I'm in a mood for a quality unit history ( not forgetting Goss, Vasco, Forsyth, Mombeek etc etc) .. I'm always dipping into these books..
Re JG300. Most positive assessments are based solely on Vol 1 so far ...it received some nice reviews, but Volume II - due some time - is even more exciting! Aside from the superb and very rare late war photos, the book is chock full of gripping personal accounts - the authors got out there and tracked their men down and got their stories and then wrote the history around them (Mombeek has a similar approach). I would humbly suggest that in both these areas and with this approach these works have the edge over Caldwell & Prien..of course as a body of work Prien is simply unsurpassed..(although I agree with JJ re the II./JG 3 book - heavy!)
BTW, the French editions of the JG300 books have sold over 4,000 copies between them so far and featured simultaneously in the Amazon.fr Top 50 ..not bad for a Luftwaffe book costing €70 ....there's more on the books and an interview with M. Lorant via the link if interested..

http://members.aol.com/falkeeins

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

By the way my own impression was based on the French version, mainly on the second volume that I read lately (bought it in December IIRC).

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

Neil,

what is so special about the II./JG 3 book compared with the other Prien volumes? Or do you mean IV./Jg 3 which is indeed slightly different?

regards,

John.

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

Whoa! 9 out of 10? Guys you've sold me! I'll see if I can free up the cash---or barring that try to convince my Local Library to InterLibrary Loan it for me...
As for Prien; I've only read the JG53 3 volume history by him; I like his writing tremendously, up to a point---the quotes & recollections of guys who are flew for the unit makes them seen quite alive & spontaneous: cocky, confident, glory hungry, scared, tired, bored, demoralized--even though many will be KiA's in the not too distant future; another thing he delved into was the fear & the stress that the pilots endured in their day to day lives;
however the one thing the Prien doesn't do too often is touch on who they flew against ---information RE: the opposition they flew against & their losses vs the claims that were made...

NikM

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

I've only seen a limited sample of Prien's work (e.g. the JG 77 and JG 53 histories) and you cannot fault his research from the German side. My feeling was that he was in an understandable hurry to get the veterans' reminiscences while there was sill time and to get their story into print. That meant filling out the picture with the Allied perspective was less important to what he was then trying to achieve. The amount of his output shames the rest of us who need to stop for meals, sleep etc. but I prefer books that have looked at every angle.

Forsyth's JV 44 I was peripherally involved in, so I'm not impartial but getting a book that size out of a c. 30-plane unit that only lasted four weeks must rate as an achievement.

It's been a long time since I last read it but Manfred Boehme's Jagdgeschwader 7 impressed me at the time, after I'd got through his rather lengthy account of the Me 262's development.

Urbanke's Green Hearts had a lot going for it (and I bought and kept it) but I felt the author was a bit overwhelmed by the scale of the task and hadn't organised the material as well as he might have: his magazine articles had been much sharper. Also there were points where more analysis would have been welcome: how could an entire retrained, rested and well-equipped Gruppe come off so badly against eight Tempests, for instance?

On the other hand, I recently re-read JG 26 War Diary, vol. 2 and for me that remains the one to beat. The quality and quantity of research is all there, the people are real, the detail doesn't swamp the story and it's especially well written.

However the two volumes of Lorant's Bataille dans le Ciel d'Allemagne have been on my shelf since just after Christmas and I hear them calling me ...

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

But in case of JG 26 it is relatively easy to provide a picture from both sides, compared to many other units. That said (IMHO) the author also favors JG 26 in his analysis when JG 2 and JG 26 operate in the same area.

I think one other flaw is this obsession with JG 26 as being "Top Guns", which reaffirms some of that Abbeville kids myth. In the West JG 26 and its association with Galland have achieved a sort of iconic status. It does not surprise that a JG 26 unit history is elevated to top spot as well.

Only this iconic status can explain the lack of interest in JG 2, which served alongside it for much of its operational career in the West. One would expect the Traditionsgeschwader "Richthofen" to get an equal treatment.

The JG 26 books feature very high on my list, but seen within this context. Great, but a lesser challenge compared to most Jagdwaffe units. However the way this work was executed leaves little to be desired.

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

The value of any fighter, bomber or Schlacht unit lies in its effect on the enemy. Therefore, if the opposing side kept records and they're accessible, you should be able to use them to contribute to a more rounded picture.

Probably true. He does seem to imply that JG 2 were prone to exaggeration (as does my much narrower research on I./JG 2 in Italy).

The message I got from Vol. 2 was of a unit (and an air force) being steadily outclassed by its opponents and Caldwell's very interesting about the disintegration of morale and performance in the III. Gruppe.

Galland's sales job on his own reputation? Cf. Patrick Bishop Fighter Boys (Harper Perennial, 2004: ISBN 0 00 653204 7), "His high-wattage bonhomie allowed him later to play the part of a professional Good German. He was a prominent guest at post-war fighter-pilot reunions ... Some pilots were never persuaded. In the view of Christopher Foxley-Norris, 'Galland was a shit.'"

The reason for that is that you didn't write the JG 2 book, I didn't write the JG 2 book and nor did thousands of others who are waiting for someone else to do the job! We are all guilty!

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

I think the main reason why JG 26 is covered in books so well and JG 2 not is that there is something I would like to call a "gliding slope"..... JG 26 was always pretty well covered. First because of the considerable amount of records that are preserved, mainly because of the research done in 1950-1960's by Hans Otto Boehm and others, resulting in a.o. Prillers book. Furthermore other researchers like Gert Poelchau a.o. did build on that. Don Caldwell brought it further, especially to the English language world. JG 2 does not have that foundation. Herr Voss (a former II./2 pilot) was working on the JG 2 history for many years but because of health problems there was little progress. I remember also that when Ron and I asked JG 2 veterans for help on the 1.1.45 story several were hesitant to help because "Herr Voss was working on the Geschwaderchronik". Luckily this was overcome and we got some help, but it wasn't what I had hoped for.

Hopefully the new work on JG 2 will gives us a proper Chronik.

Cheers,

John.

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

..I might not be impartial ..but I'm not going to apologise ..
.... one reason why the JG 300 history has to rate more highly in my book - it was painstakingly assembled piece by piece from a starting point of nothing..not even a single diary ...to over 500 pages of text - it always amazes me that German 'historians' working in Germany managed to produce a two volume 'work' on the unit with no text and over 400 errors in the photo captions (Bethke and Hennig) - ever wondered why there is nothing - or as good as - on III. & IV./JG 300 on the JG 300.de web site..? Because as the author points out in the interview on my site he had realised what was happening by that stage & didn't circulate photos or contacts from vets of these Gruppen..
and when dealing with unit histories, the photographic aspect is important - having seen some of the material he didn't get, I would go so far as to say that Caldwell's photographic coverage is actually pretty indifferent, possibly because he didn't/couldn't get out there among the veterans.

http://members.aol.com/falkeeins

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

fortunately for us, Messrs. Mombeek & Roba have (with the participation of C. Goss) - and the authors have once again travelled the length and breadth of Germany uncovering a stack of rare photos and personal accounts in the process. I have been lucky enough to see the hard layout of Volume 1 before it goes off to the printers (French edition) sometime in the next fortnight. I'm sure it will set a new bench mark..!

Re: That NEW JG300 unit history: How'd you rate it?
 

This book on JG300 is a must have, I won't compare it to other works as in my opinion, it stands alone.....I am patiently waiting for Eagle to release Vol II.....Hope it is very soon as promised.
Being right handed, it sits right side top shelf.
Kevin