B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Can someone give me some details about B-17F 42-5357 apparently shot down by German fighters probably over Tunisia in 1943?
Thanks in advance.

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

# 42- 5357
Assigned 303d BG 1/1/43
Transferred to Air Force Service Command 3/19/43
Transport , Hack ?
Written Off 8/27/44
No other info.
Mike

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Judging by the photograph, I strongly doubt that this a/c has survived until 1944. This photograph was taken by the Germans in Northern Africa (probably Tunisia) in 1943.

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Hi,

Most of the B17F's from this block were delivered as new a/c from About August of 1942 to February 1943. Arrivals in Europe was around february/march of 1943. So if this a/c served with an 8th AAF unit first then made it out to North Africe post march of 43 then it would fit with it being destroyed in air or on the ground while still just haveing the blue and white Star marking without the yellow outer circle OR the Bar to the roundel.

Maybe this is a help.

Alex

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Christian

May I ask what your source is for the reported shoot down by Luftwaffe in 1943. The two individuals don't look very German to me. Certainly no expert but the guy to the right looks more French than German.:) The clothing doesn't look very German either....:confused:

Cheers
Stig

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Looking closer at photo - I think Stig is right. The man on left looks like AAF officer with Crush Hat - looks like AAF patch on Sleeve.
Also looks like A/C Burned , may be a Base - telephone poles in background.
Cheers

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Hi there!
My source is the origin of the photograph. It was taken by a PK in N.Africa. It comes from ECPA-D and its reference is DAK 287 L21. I don't need to explain what "DAK" means, do I? As for the chaps, they may be French (or Italian) but definitely not American - unless there is an armed guard behind the photographer!

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Hello again Chris

Well, sorry to say, I am not familiar with the French sources and I don't know what DAK is.
What I find very strange is that the USAAF has got their records to incredibly wrong, that not only have they no idea that their aeroplane was lost in North Africa in 1943, but they believe it to be lost one year later....

I guess stranger things than that could happen in "book keeping" departments. Any chance the ECPA-D could have made a mistake??

Cheers
Stig

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

DAK=Deutsches Afrika Korps

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Hallo all,

Back on 26 August 2003 Carlos Herrera (where is he now ?) posted a link to a different photo of this B-17 wreck. It was coded DAK 287 L17 and a rough English translation of the caption would be: "German pilots and Tunisians examine the wreck of a Boeing B-17 bomber which was destroyed in Tunisia".

As Carlos wrote then go to www.ecpad.fr/ecpa/index.htm and type in 'B-17' into the search engine. The first photo up is the L17 version above. There must be more photos to judge by their numbers.

I suggest the tall figure in CJE's photo is German. Note the light coloured pants flopping down over his boots.Seems like many other photos I have seen of German troops in North Africa or Tunisia. Can't be more sure as my few uniform books are in the attic.

By the way in 2003 no more headway was made in identifying the unit, circumstances, etc.

Hope this helps.

Martin Gleeson.

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Carlos Herrera, c'est moi.

Martin, you're right, the other picture clearly shows the serial number.
From the time period, I would guess a 301st or 97th BG B-17, with a possibility of the 99th BG.

Could be a replacement rudder but remember the golder rule of aviation history research:
"Verify all printed sources"

Just another WWII mistery.

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Let's sum up.
This B-17F, assuming that it IS its own tail (and not borrowed to another), was diverted from 8th AF 303rd BG to AFSC on 19.03.43 (or 03.19.43 for our American readers). Destroyed in a way or another in Tunisia (the road and the poles nearby could suggest an attempted crash-landing), a campaign that ended early May.
Thus, these facts limit the scope to a period extending from 20.03.43 to late April (assuming PK photographers were taken home before the final surrender).
I also checked the MACRs, none was filled for 42-5357.

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Hi,


found in Internet. So caption gives 11.03.43.



Regards

Robert

End of the story
 

P-40 Warhawk Aces of the MTO, by C. Molesworth (Osprey #43).

[Chase and Gray of 33rd FG] were flying over enemy-held territory between Gabès and El-Guettar on 5 January 1943, when they spotted an apparently undamaged B-17 being towed along a road. Although they did not know it at the time, the four-engined American bomber had force-landed nearby after becoming lost on a ferry flight to North Africa. Captured by the Germans, the aeroplane was being towed toward a Luftwaffe base when the P-40 pilots found it.
Chase and Gray did not like the idea of the B-17 falling into enemy hands, so they dove earthward with guns blazing and strafed the bomber until it caught fire and burned to a hulk.

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Hi,

So one of a possible ten that were lost en-route to the MTO in 1943.

Anyone have a list of serial numbers ?

Alex

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

I suspect it was actually flying to the CBI theatre. AFSC had - AFAIK - only bases in India, Burma and China.
What happened to the crew? No MACR was filled though the plane landed deep in German-held territory.

Re: B-17F shot down in North Africa
 

Hi CJE

How are you my friend ?

It seem to be more difficult to identified correctly this famous Flying Fort ! Incredible !

I have exactely the same problem with an P-51 "B"... at Toulon since many years now.

Have a fun

*Cépé*