Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Hi,
Can anybody be good enough to supply information regarding losses from
KG26 on the following dates.

8.5.41 4x He111H's lost during ops to Suez area from II/ KG26

20.5.41 2X He111H's lost during ops to attack Heraklion Arfd, both from 6/KG26.

Any help would be most appreciated, particularly with the W.Nr's!

rgs,
Steve.

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Details are as follow
5 41 KG26 3 8 XFK 4 KG26 F /Suez-kanal/ X HE111H-5 3870 1H+BC 100 1 3
5 41 KG26 4 8 XFK 6 KG26 F /Suez-kanal/ X HE111H-5 3850 1H+AP 100 1 3
5 41 KG26 5 8 XFK 6 KG26 F /Suez-kanal/ X HE111H-5 3887 1H+FP 100 1 3
5 41 KG26 6 8 XFK 5 KG26 F /Suez-kanal/ X HE111H-5 3885 1H+FN 100 4
5 41 KG26 23 20 4 II KG26 F Héraklion FP BR feind gebiet HE111 3843 1H+ZP 100 2 1 1
5 41 KG26 24 20 4 II KG26 F /Kreta/ BR feind gebiet HE111 3953 1H+MP 100 4
5 41 KG26 25 20 4 II KG26 F /Kreta/ F MG X

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Merci RT,

The information you provided is excellent.
Many thanks for your time and effort.

Regards,
Steve.

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Hallo,
I found this old thread looking for info about LW losses during the battle for Crete in may 1941, in particular the Heraklion sector.

May I ask for your help about this data provided by RT?

5 41 KG26 23 20 4 II KG26 F Héraklion FP BR feind gebiet HE111 3843 1H+ZP 100 2 1 1

Many thanks for your help in advance

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

I am not sure whether this helps.

20/05/1941; 6./KG 26; Fl.Pl. Heraklion (Kreta); Bruchlandung auf Feindgebiet; He 111; 3843; 1H+ZP; 100%; Oblt. Stetten, Kurt v. gef.; Kreta (B) Oblt. Schmidt, Werner [gef.] / (Bf) Uffz. Kube, Heinz [verw.] / (Bm) Uffz. Miedl, Johann [gef.] / (Bs) Gefr. Hudelist, Franz [gef.]; 4-0-1-0; Take off: Athen-Eleusis

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Many thanks!
I suppose that 3843 is the ID nr of the He 111 that0s correct?
What does 1H+ZP mean?

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

The manufacturer's W.Nr. (Serial number) for this aircraft was 3843.

1H = Kampfgeschwader 26 + Z (individual aircraft within the Staffel) P (6. Staffel).

You are welcome.

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Many thanks!
May I know where are these data from?

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Sure.

It is from various sources, as compiled by a number of enthusiasts. You may find more here https://www.facebook.com/groups/1620875238056614/

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Many thanks!!

I found also an interesting thread on Forum der Wehrmacht about the same matter:

https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/i...geschwader-26/

It's interesting to know if both these aircrafts where lost in Heraklion sector, (or, if not, what is the second aircraft hit there):

- von Stetten, He 111 H-5, Werknummer 3843, "1H+ZP" (laut der aktuellen Geschwaderchronik "Die Spur des Löwen": "1H+EP") und gehörte der 6./KG 26 an. Bordschütze Gefr. Hans Budelist kam ebenfalls ums Leben.
- Tönnesmann, He 111 H-5, Werknummer 3953, "1H+MP" (laut der aktuellen Geschwaderchronik "Die Spur des Löwen": "1H+EN") und gehörte der 5./KG 26 an.

The forum guy Jafü Mittelrhein list Gefr.Hans Budelist as crew member of He 111 3853, instead of Franz Hudelist. Which one is the correct name?

Thanks in advance ;)

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Hi,

Franz Hudelist *24.02.1918 in Markt Griffen/Ostmark, 6./KG 26, +20.05.1941 beim Einsatz auf Kreta notgelandet.

René

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Many thanks!
So, according to what I could find, Heraklion Sector:

May 20th:

2 He 111 belonged to II./KG 26 were hit:

He 111 H5, 6./KG 26 (3843)
- Oblt.Kurt von Stetten (kia)
- Oblt.Werner Schmidt (Beobachter) (kia)
- Uffz.Heinz Kube (Funker) (ferito)
- Uffz. Johann Miedl (Bordmechaniker) (kia)
- Gefr.Franz Hudelist (Burdschütze) (kia)

He 111 H5, 6./KG 26 (3953)
- Ofw.Wilhelm Tönnesmann (ferito)
- Fw.Mathias Holler (ferito)
- Uffz.Horst Funke (ferito)
- Gefr.Heinz Winkler (ferito)

May 22nd :

1 (unknown aircraft) belonged to III.(Aufkl)/LG 2 was hit:

(unknown aircraft), 7(F)/LG 2
- Olt Erich Ludwig Otto Kissel

Can anybody help me giving confirm of the first 2 aircrafts and fulfilling the lacking info about the 3rd of LG 2? (btw, I suppose if was a Bf 110)

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

A little update: what about the Ju 52 (6240) shot down over Heraklion on May 20th, 2./KG zbV 101? I have 3 names of the crew: H.Biewendt, Werner Kirmse and Erich Mählig.

Does anyone have more info about?

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Both your He 111 were on specific Crete missions (not the Suez Canal)

Bf 110 E-3 WNr 2330 L2+PR crashed on a mission to Crete crew Oblt Erich Kiesel and Fw Erwin Adam both KIA

Source: Die Deutsche Luftwaffe in Griechenland by Byron Tesapsides
If your interest is Crete, it is a book you should get. I believe Byron has published a second edition of it (this quote is from the first edition)

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Unit code was G6+EK.
Crewmembers killed or wounded were:
BO Uffz Willi Schürme (WIA)
BF Uffz Werner Kirmse (KIA)
BM Fw Erich Mählig (KIA)

Source: same as before, but Byron does not mention any H. Biewendt.
Your own source please

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Many thanks! I got the info from Yannis Prekatsounakis, Crete 1941 the battle for Heraklion

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Hi,

Biewendt, Helmut, *01.12.1918 in Eilenstedt, 2./KG zbV 101, +21.05.1941 in Iraklion, Friedhof anlage Iraklion Grab 455.
(Source: BArch-PA-Berlin)

René

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

A last question about them:
He 111 h5, 5./KG 26 (wrk.nr.3953), Ofw.Wilhelm Tönnesmann, Fw.Mathias Holler, Uffz.Horst Funke, Gefr.Heinz Winkler
What is correct, 5./KG 26 or 6./KG 26? I found both in my researches

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Joda

Sources differ.
Byron has preferred the "old" interpretation and says 6./KG 26 while Steenbeck gives a "new" interpretation and says 5./KG 26

I don't know what findings have resulted in such a way to make Steenbeck change the previous held view.

It would also be interesting to know why Biewendt was connected with WNr 6240. Was he badly wounded on the 20th and died the day after (21st) or was he killed on the ground?

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Sorry, may be you think I'm very ignorant, but I'm getting great knowledge thanks to this thread ;)
many thanks.

How is it possible to understand the codes you all use here? Like G6+EK

Sidney in post #7 kindly explained me, thanks, but where I can find the first LW unit corresponding two digits (1H or G6) or the 4th digit (like K in EK)?

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Many thanks Stig!

According to Yannis, it was listed as dead the day after but actually he was killed on May 20th. In his book he show his JU 52 hit (photo from AWM), and his researches led him to this statement. Considering that many men of III.Zug 14 (FJR.1) were killed after the crash of his plane on 20th, I'm with him about the date of death..

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

OK, do we know what rank he had? Could he have been a soldier/paratrooper onboard?

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Unteruffizier. I know he considers him a crew member, but I can ask him his exact role, if he knows this.
I'll keep you updated.

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Plz.help me also here ....:)

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Hello,

Uffz. u. Flugzeugführer Helmut Biewendt, 2./KG zbV 101, Erk.-M.: 53411/27 (Kampfgruppe zb Verfügung).
All three (Uffz. u. Flzgfhr. Helmut Biewendt, Uffz. u. Bf. Werner Krimse, Fw. u. Bm. Erich Mählig) were buried side by side at the Heraklion cemetery.

According the Gräberoffizier the crew was first missing. On the official death card, loss date is 21.5.1941.

Regards,
René

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

I don't know if they are on the 'net somewhere.
Sinisa explained the concept in a previous mail, but perhaps should have added that each major Luftwaffe unit had a unit code consisting of one letter and one digit, ie A1+ and 1A+
the two letters after the cross always indicated the aircraft status within this main unit (Geschwader). The first of these letters were the aircraft's position within the smallest entity (the Staffel). The last letter thus indicated this Staffel.

During the period you are interested the last letter indicator was:
A-G used by Geschwader and/or Gruppe Stab flights
H = 1. Staffel (I. Gruppe)
K = 2. Staffel (I. Gruppe)
L = 3. Staffel (I. Gruppe)
M = 4. Staffel (II. Gruppe)
N = 5. Staffel (II. Gruppe)
P = 6. Staffel (II. Gruppe)
R = 7. Staffel (III. Gruppe)
S = 8. Staffel (III. Gruppe)
T = 9. Staffel (III. Gruppe)

This basic system was used by the Luftwaffe all through the war. However it evolved when units expanded (the Gruppe got four Staffeln for example)

Some units had extra Gruppen, IV. Gruppe was thus usually an OTU, ie operational training unit, while a few units also had a V. Gruppe.

There were also exceptions, but this is the main set up

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Thanks René!
Sorry, I listed 4 names, but you mention "all three".. Which were the crew members?
Uffz.Helmut Biewendt, Uffz.Werner Kirmse, Uffz.Willi Schürme, Fw.Erich Mählig

Where I can find his official death card?

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Many many thanks, I really appreciate all your helps guys ;)

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Thanks René ;) , I tried to pm you but the webpage writes me you cannot receive pm.

Re: Luftwaffe losses during Crete campaign 5.1941
 

Hallo friends,
Does anybody has info about a Ju 52 G6+KL ? Shot down on May 20th

Thanks in advance