Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hi to all,

Just stumbled on the following link with some great pictures of Me 109 G-14, FW 190S and Ju 86, photographed at Köthen, Germany, 1945.

http://www.soldiersmuseum.com/pages/...lery/index.htm

Scroll down, they are at the bottom of this page.

Any details rto add regaring those pictures?

Cheers

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

After a quick check back, the FW 190 S-8 W.nr. 680430 shown at the foillowing link:
http://www.soldiersmuseum.com/pages/...armored-56.htm
is also probably depicted in Rodeike 1998, 372, but seen from the other side. If this is the case, Rodeike gives the unit as 1./JG 110.

Source: Rodeike 1998: Peter Rodeike, Focke-Wulf Jagdflugzeug, Fw 190A, Fw 190 "Dora" Ta 152H, Struve-Druck, Eutin.

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

http://www.soldiersmuseum.com/pages/...armored-57.jpg

And this one, a G-10/U4 i suppose.

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Kuba,

Difficult to be sure: it has the short tailwheel, and even with my best will, I do not see for sure the enlarged wing fairings. I have rather the feeling he soldier is leaning against a small wing fairing. Only sure item is the DB 605D engine,a shown by the two small bulges under the engine cowliing. All told, could rather be a Me 109G-14/ASD.

Cheers

MArc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Well, the angle at which that photo was taken makes any recognision difficult but fortunatelly some features are visible.
First, the MK 108 ammo box acces cover. It's raised. You can see it in front of a windscreen.
Then, the tailwheel leg. Lower one. Another feature typical for a WNF-built G-10's.
The wheel discs despite the flatten tyres makes me to think, they are 660x190, the larger ones.
Also this guy sitting on wing's bulge. Would smaller one look the same now?
For a moment I thought, that it could be a tricky K-4 with a lower tailwheel as seen on 334 xxx batch but I think, that battery is still present aft the cockpit even when it's cover is lost. That can eliminate K-4.

I'd rather choose a G-10/U4 after all, but I'm not a 100% sure.
Even if I cannot see the cold start device cover now to confirm the expected DB 605 D presence.

cheers
Kuba

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Dobro Kuba!

Ok, the ammo box cover lifted is an excellent pointer I oversaw, so definitely a /U4. Was there any G-14/U4 subtype? The K-4 issue is a bit more nagging; I discarded this possibility because of the short tailwheel (obvious)and the seemingly small wing bulges (no clear answer). But, we should see the D/F loop ito the right of the soldier f it's a G model we're looking at. Well, nothing to be sure of, but this could point to the K-4 positioning for the D/F loop, one section behind hte G position.

It is unfortunate that so little certainty can be gained with such a sharp and high resolution photograph.

To make that point, did you notice on the the next photograph
http://www.soldiersmuseum.com/pages/...armored-51.htm

that this seemingly formless mass of wrecked airframes in the distance does reveal very clearly a 109K-4?

Thanks for your input!

Cheers

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hello Marc!

There were in fact a G-14/U4 built but those had a AM engine and classic Beule in front of windscreen.
This one on discussed photo had a AS or D engine covers. There were no AS engined MK 108 armed Gustavs as far as I know.

On that second photo, yes it's a K-4 definitely. The fuselage radio access panel is removed and it's position is clearly seen. Such a pity, the distance was so great. The late K-4 camouflage is visible too. Maybe it's no more than illusion but I think the three digit number relating to it's Werknummer is also hand painted on the fuselage.

There is also a Dora among those photographs. I don't want to make a funny mistake but isn't it a Hohenberg's W.Nr.210194?

Excellent photos, that Jagdpanzer IV L-70 is also exciting!


all the best!
Kuba

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hi Kuba,

Agreed, on would wish to zoom sharply for that K-4 in the distance!

As for the D-9, you're right! Eric kindly confirmed this.

I just got hold of another G, my guess would be G-14, but I'm getting cautious:
http://www.97thdivision.com/pictures/13.jpg

What's your opinion?

Cheers

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

What a beauty!
An Erla-built G-14 I think. Unfortunatelly there is no accu or it's cover but there is one uncovered opening on the right side of fuselage spine (the lower one) and the Morane mast.
The typical Erla underwing crosses also help to identify it as a G-14.
What I like most on this photo is the ammo belt spread on the propeller blade.

Nice one ;)

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Kuba,

Thanks! Glad to be correct this time :-)

I'll keep you infomed if I discover other late 109 pics on the net.

Cheers

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Marc, thank you. I'll be delighted to see more of those o'nines.

cheers!
Kuba

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hi

I'm having trouble linking to the soldiersmuseum website. Any ideas where I can find these photos elsewhere? I'm particularly interested in the S8. Any photos of this type would be appreciated.

Cheers

Si

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hi Si,

Just tried to link up, but the site seems down. Can send you the pics via e-mail

Cheers

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

The Kothen Gustav was Bf 109G-10/R2, W-Nr. 770157, white 66. See Close-Up 7, pg. 8.

Hal

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Thanks Harold, for the lead. You're positive it's the one and same machine?

Regards

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hi,


here is a close-up of downed Fw190D.

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Wow !
It is Werner HOHENBERG's plane, shot down 1-1-1945.
Only one photo was known to this date !
(WkNr 210194 Stab I/JG 2)

Von Alles

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Are there any more known photos of this plane, Hal?

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hi Robert; Your photo is stunning! May I ask if it was already published? thanks for shairng it with us.

Hi Von Alles,

There is a third photo of the same plane I just chanced upon on the same website I pointed in this topic:

http://www.soldiersmuseum.com/pages/...armored-50.htm

It is also W.Nr. 210194.


Cheers

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hi Marc,


I found this photo some time ago on the net. I doubt it was ever published.


Robert

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the infotmaion; any 109's on the site where you found W.N.r 210194?

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

No. Only this one.

Robert

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hello,

For the FW 190 S-8 W.nr. 680430,

http://www.soldiersmuseum.com/pages/...armored-56.htm

i don't find the emblem on the books:
-Luftwaffe emblems 1939-1945
-Luftwaffe fledglings 1935-1945
from Hikoki publications.

Anybody have this emblem in another book ? Or another picture ?

On the book Luftwaffe codes, markings and units 1939-1945 from military history book; the JG110 was formed from FFS/B 10 but the emblem of this school unit was a black rabbit. I don't think that it's this emblem on the picture.

Thank you in advance,

Best regards,

Lumabe.

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hi Lumabe,

The only probable reference I've found so far is: Rodeike 1998, 372 shows also a FW 190S-8 "White 30" but seen from the other side. If this is the case, Rodeike gives the unit as 1./JG 110.

Source: Rodeike 1998: Peter Rodeike, Focke-Wulf Jagdflugzeug, Fw 190A, Fw 190 "Dora" Ta 152H, Struve-Druck, Eutin.

Hope this helps

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Odd tailfin!
http://www.soldiersmuseum.com/pages/...armored-64.htm

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Yep,

looks lik the old Matchbox 1/72 scale FW 190 kit...

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

It's a survivor Fw 190 A-2 or A-3 :)
Even the national markings seem original, early style ones.

cheers
Kuba

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Kuba, Skyraider,

By magnifiying this odd FW 190 A picture, I did just notice the very small Stammkennzeichen DK+EG. An other oddity!

Cheers

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

I think this early war Fw 190 (A-2/3) is the very same as seen in Luftwaffe im Focus No. 8 page 47, lower photo. That image is of much higher quality but being a close-up it only shows the latter part of the code (+BG) and a numeral "3" which may have been green, red or blue! The numeral is obscured in this full-view image.

The camouflage and overpainted original Stammkennzeichen (see the uniformly coloured patches behind and in front of the Balkenkreuz) are the same on both photos. Even the mottling matches!

Regards,

Kjetil

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

It can be the same plane. Note the broken down pitot tube. Its same position in both photos.

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Yes, it looks the same. The WNF-built G-10 airframe matches, the broken pitot tube you have mentioned but also a rubbish below the aircraft.
When you look carefully at it's belly you will see the camera window fairing.

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hi Kuba and Falcon,

Any chance to have a scan of the other G-10 photo from Monogram Close-Up?

Thanks in advance

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Marc,
A poor scan but I hope it will help.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r233/bavgan/66.jpg

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Dear Batura,
Thanks so much, you made my day!

Harold, Falcon, Kuba,
Similarities of rubbish against the left wheel and broken antenna are indeed a good pointer for the same plane.

Thanks for the lead

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

thanks for all.
looking this pic, I think it is a rare Kalkert 430
http://www.soldiersmuseum.com/pages/...armored-63.htm
Could you confirm this?

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Tahiti,

I was baffled by this Type name. Got my Google working and accessed to this photo of an intact Gotha und Kalkert 430, from this site:

http://www.luft46.com/gotha/gop50.html

First time I hear of the type, thanks!

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

hi marc-andré
about the kalkert 430, you can also find other pics on http://forum.luftarchiv.de/
choose "motorflugzeug", "extra menu" and "gotha"
an then...have a good moment.

thierry.

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Merci Thierry!

Marc

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hello,

Please, nothing about the emblem of the FW-190 S-8 ?

Best regards,

Lumabe.

Re: Me 109G-14 and FW 190S in Köthen, Germany 1945
 

Hello Lumabe,

Sorry, nothing else on my side... Did you check Rodeike's book?

Cheers

Marc