KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hello,

I'm trying to caption a photo of He111H-2 6N+NH that apparently force-landed on a lake in Norway during the spring of 1940. The photo depicts the aircraft in a snowstorm. The only likely prospect I can find in "Fledgling Eagles" is “Near Elvenes on this date (May 6, 1940) an He111 of 1/KGr100 was brought down by AA and other ground fire, force-landing south of Holtasen: Fw Oswald Lochbrunner and his crew managed to make their way through the lines on foot to reach German Alpine troops.” However, May seems a little late, although not impossible, for a snowstorm. Does anyone know the circumstances and date of the loss of 6N+NH? I know from other photos that I've seen, that the plane remained on the lake until the spring thaw, broke through the ice, and probably settled to the bottom of the lake. Has it ever been recovered?

Can anyone help?

Thanx

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hello,

I should have done a little more research before I posted that query. This is obviously the H-2, 6N+NH, of Hptm. Artur von Casimir, of Stab KGr100, that force landed on Lake Jonsvatnet near Trondheim on 20.4.40, and which was salvaged from the lake in the recent past with all markings pretty well intact. Excellent color photos exist of the salvage on the "Luftwaffe wrecks Norway" website.

If anyone has contact with the owner of those color photos, I'd appreciate being put in contact with him. Another photo of this aircraft sinking through the ice can be found in Karl Ries' book "Dora-Kurfürst und rote 13," Vol. 4, P.87.

If anyone else has photos or information on this loss, I'd appreciate hearing from them.

Thanx,

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi;

A documentery, ´Winger under Vann ´ was made on
this in Norway in 2004. Try forum ´Norway in WW-2´, an link to that page can be found on SIG Luftwaffe homepage. Ju 88 0119 U4+TK was raised at same time
see also www.Ju88.net - See also www.flyvrak.info . i know Kjell Sörensen has colour pics of
both aircraft rasing from jonsvannet.

cheers
ed

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Thanks Ed!

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

[quote=Larry Hickey;39790]Hello,


Another photo of this aircraft sinking through the ice can be found in Karl Ries' book "Dora-Kurfürst und rote 13," Vol. 4, P.87.

If anyone else has photos or information on this loss, I'd appreciate hearing from them.

Hi Larry!
Tried to contact you by PM but your box is full.
Do you have this book or picture?

I have some colour pictures of the salvage , I was there the hole week watching the salvage .
I also have one 7.92 round found in JU88 U4 + TK in my collection, It was given me by Guttorm who is restauring the plane.

John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi, would anybody happen to know whether Hptm. Artur von Casimir's Flugbuch survives to this day, or does anybody have any copies from this?

Best regs,
Steve.

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

No flugbuch but he gave me a handwritten listing of his operational flights

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Was there any flights recorded from Jonsvatnet besides the one where he chrashed?

John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Don`t know if you guys have seen this photo before but I bought this on ebay for a while ago.

John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Here are a few more ex eBay auction photos, one showing 6N+NH prior to Norway and another of her prone on the ice.

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Thanks Chris!

The picture prior to Norway was new to me but very interesting.
Thanks you for showing!

John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi Chris, thanks for your reply with regards Hptm. Artur von Casimir's flugbuch.

I dont know whether you saw a recent E-bay collection offered for sale, purportedly being claimed to have been an a/c used by Von Casimir.
This was Heinkel 111 6N+CA with possibly the last two digits of the W.Nr shown on the nose as ##52.
Through the use of his flugbuch i wondered whether it might have been possible to confirm this a/c as his?

Best regs,
Steve.

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

John

His logbook shows flights up to 25 May 40 when they were flying from Trondheim.

Steve

If the photo shows the port side with him out the top, I have this photo. According to his Flugbuch, on ops he flew AA, DH, BA, NH, GH, FK, MH & CA (25 May 40 for the last one). No Wk Nrs listed and according to him he was in BA when shot down

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Thanks!
You don`t have names on his crew when he belly landed on Jonsvatnet 20.04.1940?
Looking at the other pictures from the JU88 and U4 with the bloody seat there have must been casualities at Jonsvatnet that time.

John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Sorry but no. All it says is 6N+NH 20.4.40 Aalborg 0730 Trondheim 1430. I cannot read the notes about the flight

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Ok Chris!
Got the time frame now and that's great from my perspective:-).
Thank you again Chris, you have been in much help.

Have a good one!
John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

There is a photo of Casimir standing with a colleague in front of 6N+BA so thanks Chris for confirming that he flew this also.

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi ChrisS, would it be possible to scan your picture of Hptm Von Casimir with Heinkel 111H 6N+BA.
Im trying to gather as much info as i can on KGr100 aircraft, and i dont think i have a copy of that particular a/c.

Kindest regs,
Steve.

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi Steve

Here you go, said to be taken at Vaernes but I am not sure of this.

Cheers

Chris

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi ChrisS, thanks for this photo, one that ive not seen before.

Kindest regs,
Steve.

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi, all

The photograph is definitely from Norway, as you can read the letters on the wall of the white building, which is a typical wooden building for Norway, as ´LUFTHAVN´.

Also, the Bf 109E ´Schwarze Winkel´, the aircraft of Lt Horst Carganico is visible.

So Norway is definite - I will double check to ensure that it is Værnes - as it could be one of the southern airfields also.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Could well be Kjevik instead of Værnes ;)

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi.

That was my initial thought, and after checking my photographs, it is no longer a thought.

This photograph was taken at Kjevik, near Kristiansand in southern Norway.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hello''
I think this bomber was lived inside the fuserlarge frame by locals as a semi house? as it was on shore. i saw this in a magazine. well was to 1980.
but ?-
sharon

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi!
You don`t have this magazine or recall which magazine this article was in?
I have heard rumours about locals used parts of this aircraft at the surroundings farms, but I have not got it confirmed yet.
This article may help me on my way ..

John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi...

I was lead to believe that the fuselage of 6N+NH is the same item that was stored in the Deutsche Technikmuseum, Berlin in 2006.

For those who may not have seen it, the undernoted link should take you to the page for the photo of the fuselage; once there, simply scroll down and the Heinkel will be in the left column, two from the bottom.

http://www.airventure.de/tips_dtmb_2.htm

The individual aircraft letter 'N' is still clearly visible, as is the location of what's left of the Viking longship insignia.

Regards,

Paul

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

well back 1980 flypast me thinks could be wrong;
it said lived in.still and a pictures too.lights inside candles.?
i saw them just browzingly at mags.i remember it..there his a articule on the net i read too.
sharon

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

In fact a logbook, there is, but really need one hv a better copy than mine, I could tell that he started from Aalborg at 07h30 nd probably crash at 09h30 after 420 km , obviously something is written to explain everything happened , but unlesbar , as probably told Casimir, he flew 2 days later but from Trondheim

Rémi

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi!
Would have been great to have read the article..have tryed to google it but I can't find it anywere. Please tell me if you come across it again.

John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi!
I have two timeframes on this flight, one the one you mention and one that have the same start of flight but a chrash time at 14.30.
Aalborg is in Denmark and Trondheim is in middle of Norway, would think 420km is too short on this flight?
Did he landed for fuel some other place in this flight?

Is the log book avaviable for a copy?

John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hello
ok. but long time ago.
sharon

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Is the log book avaviable for a copy?


Just need to ask

Rémi

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hello
found on the Net -airliners net a picture.of it.

as I rembr-locals lived inside the plane as 1980. by that mag.the plane was full camoflarged too.
month i saw it was around may 80 the mag? flypast?
sharon

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hi!

Is the picture still om the Airlines Net ?
Link?

This is a unanswered question in my reserach and it wpuld have been great to have confirmes this rumours.
I live right next to Jonsvatnet and it will be easy to find more information regarding this if I ahve any evidence.

I don`t know how long Flypast have been a magazine but maybe it could be a good thing to do and send them and email about this.

Thanks again!

John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Hello,
Although I set this discussion off four years ago, I've been holding back waiting to see what developed before putting in my 2 cents worth. There are two more websites that have good info and photos relating to Casimir and this incident:

www.ju88.net-jonsvatnee - This has a good photo of the plane FL on the lake.

and

-royal-naval-reserve.co.uk/rutlandshire- This has a good photo of Casimir and a page from his FB.

This will definitely be a color profile in our EoE Phoney War/Scandinavian Campaign volume. I think that we have 6N+NH pretty well nailed.

Thanks to all of your for your contributions to this discussion.

Regards,

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Thank you Larry!

Looking forward to see your the finish product of EOE Scandinavia, hope there is some answers regarding my research project about what happend on Jonsvatnet lake the days it was used as an airodome for the german luftwaffe .when is it finished?
I have in this discussion thread posted a picture of Casimirs Heinkel, if you like to use it in your project you are very welcome, just happy to help.
Solving all the questions of historie requires help from all sources ,and this forum is filled with great people who likes to chear infomation.
This Iam very happy to see.

Thanks!
John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Larry...youre PM box is full.

(Email is coming)

John Fredrik

Re: KGr100 He 111H down in a snowstorm on lake in Norway
 

Answer to that, yes its silver .Now /looks a recent pic;
sharon
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ps im lookin for this too.even when i saw your post on it.-as I rembr it back then..