Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Gentlemen, I have two mystery aircraft lost Tobruk area Jan 1943. Would be nice to hear more about them :

1. Date : 16th January 1943 Ju88 code 6N+DR werk nummer 7949 lost (possibly by 6/KG100) Tobruk area.

2. Same date, 16th Jan 1943. Ju88A-14 code L1+RH (poss of 1/Staffel, Lehrgeswader 1 ??) again lost Western Desert, near Tobruk.

Can anyone supply/confirm further details - such as crew, kia or pow ? Circumstances of losses ? Cheers guys, RO.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Well, if there was a Ju 88 A-14, L1+RH, of LG 1 lost on 16 Jan 43, LG 1 didn't note it. Nor did it lose anything other than Ju 88 A-4/5s druing that timeframe.

He 111 H-14, 6N+DR, 7949, of 6./KG 100 was seen to go down in flames during an attack on Bengazi on 9.1.43, reason unknown. The crew, all MIA, were: FF Ltn. Guenther Barett, Bo Uffz. Peter Woerner, Bf Uffz. Franz Joba, and Bs Ofw. Rudolf Mayer.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Hi guys

According to my records, three Ju88s were claimed by 89 Squadron Beaufighters in the Tobruk area on the night of 16/17 January 1943, two claimed by the crew of F/O Shippard/F/Sgt Oxby, and one by F/Sgt Peters/F/Sgt Halliday (who also FTR). I have a note that two Ju88s from II/KLG1 FTR.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Brian

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

II./LG 1 reported 2 aircraft missing on the night of Jan. 16/17. A 3rd crahlanded on Crete due to enemy fire. 2 other machines collided during landing, one was a total loss, the other reported as 55% damaged.

The other machine that you are looking for sounds like possibly this machine - Ju 88A-4, 140219, ISACHSEN, Ofw. Herbert, , 2., LG 1, , L1+RK, , , 08-Jan-43, POW with crew, shot down by Beaufighter of 89 Sq.(Flt. Lt. Shipard?). Notlandung., RK. Loss report says 8.1.43., Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13; Taghon, LG 1, II, p.508; McAulay, Six Aces, p.192 fotos, , (NE of Tobruk), 100%, F

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

The Ju 88 RO is looking for is an A-14 with the coding L1+RH. The 2 losses on the 16th were A-4s coded L1+FN and L1+EN. (Taghon, p.508)

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

I listed Isachsen's machine because, assuming my memory is correct, the original loss report (and maybe even Taghon) said the code was 'L1+RH', whereas a photo in McAulay's book clearly shows the code to be 'L1+RK'.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Taghorn labels your a/c, in both narrative and listing, Jim, as L1+RK, and the 4 members of the crew were captured, whereas RO says the a/c and crew were listed as missing. In that category, the closest might be L1+FN, shot down on the 16th, in the Tobruk area. The night he was shot down, Ofw. Isachsen was sick, forbidden to fly, but gave in to the Kommandeur's request to fly. It was his 328th operational flight.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Hmmm. Interesting stuff fellas. Maybe I should have given you all a little more to go on... but really needed to get some confirmation of the facts for old man's book (still work in progress - arrrgh, help !!) Here's what I have on tape (plus extract from handwritten (!) combat report. And, didn't the RAF have a typewriter in North Africa ?) from Oxby snr. :


'Fifteen minutes later, another Ju88 was detected by our AI, but this time Ship was ready for the slow flying tactics. It seemed instead of flying at the more usual 150 knots, this German Junkers was deliberately flying slow, perhaps in hope this would make it very difficult for any British night fighters to mount an attack. Well, it was not easy to get him, as the flying speed of the Junkers was only just above the stalling speed of the Beaufighter, and when we opened fire we would immediately risk a stall, and (end) like a leaf in a spin. At a low altitude this could be lethal. It seemed to us a fairly drastic way for the Germans' to extract their revenge – so Ship approached quickly enough just to maintain flying speed, and opened fire accurately which immediately crippled the German aircraft. Ship's combat report of 16th January 1943 :

‘After the first combat I was told to orbit position for a few moments and then given various vectors – Angels 11. E/A appeared to be jinking approximately 30° and flying very slowly. My operator obtained contact with E/A at right angles crossing from starboard to port, well above. A large number of corrections were given and we climbed to 13,500 feet. Obtained a visual on E/A’s silhouette, no exhausts seen at first as E/A was flying very slowly. I closed in at approximately 140mph and had to weave violently to avoid overshooting. E/A appeared to be travelling at approximately 100 mph. Eventually came in from dead astern and open fire at range of 100 yards with a 4 sec burst. E/A immediately caught fire in both engines and fuselage and went down vertically. No return fire experienced – own aircraft struck by pieces from E/A but no damage done. E/A identified as Ju88. Claim one Ju88 destroyed.’

As the German fell away into the darkness, Ship then turned for home and returned to Sidi Bu Amud. We found out later two aircraft were lost that night from Lehrgeswader 1 whilst flying over Tobruk. (confirm ???) One of these was (needs checking) 6/KG100’s 6N+DR, (Werk no. 7949) flown by Leutnant G. Barett. (check fact ???) Having landed safely back at Bu Amud ourselves, we scanned the night skies and listened for the distinctive engine noise of Peter’s returning Beaufighter. We waited for some time, but gradually it became apparent that two more of our friends would not be returning that evening. Sadly, we later heard that Peters had closed in too close behind the Ju88, and he had struck the E/A’s tail-plane. This had caused both German and attacking aircraft to spiral into the ground. Just then, far away in the distance we heard the drone of a large heavy approaching. We could tell it wasn’t a Beaufighter. And it wasn’t the enemy either. This sounded like a four-engined bomber, and as it entered the circuit, we ran to light up the flarepath, a simple arrangement of tins each half filled with sand, into which a little petrol was poured before setting them alight. We watched as the aircraft turned in to land, and realised there were more approaching from the darkness. As the large aircraft switched on its landing lights, we could see this was an American B-24 Liberator. It roared down the strip to the far end of the runway, and then the next arrived, and the next. In all, there were eight of them scattered around the small field. The first had over-run into a patch of camel thorn, and as our fire-truck approached it as a precautionary measure, the big bomber opened up its four Pratt and Whitney engines to follow the fire truck to dispersal. Wherever the fire engine went, the Liberator followed, and it was only after two complete circuits of the airfield that the fire engine managed to shake him off. Later, it was revealed that the standard procedure at the B24’s base, was for a truck to approach the nose of each bomber on landing and escort him to dispersal. Anyway, the Americans had all made it down safely, and being based at an airfield nearby, they decided to stay for the night, and not to risk further unnecessary manoeuvres in the darkness.

Refreshed by a good night’s sleep, they took off again for their own base early the following morning. A half hour later, one of the B24’s unexpectedly returned to the airfield, and the pilot told Ship that one of the Ju88’s that he had shot down the previous night appeared to have crashed in the desert only a few miles away along the road to the west. Ship politely thanked the American, but thought that he was referring to an old aircraft wreck that had been lying out there for several weeks. Then ‘Rus’ turned up in his Hurricane and confirmed the Yank’s story. He’d spotted it too. Indeed there was a new Ju88 that had appeared overnight. We borrowed a jeep and roared off into the desert to take a closer look. Sure enough, it was one of the German Junkers from the night before, which had made a belly landing – but which otherwise appeared to be fairly intact. The aircraft turned out to be a Junkers Ju88A-14 coded L1+RH which originated from 1 Staffel Lehrgeschwader 1 - an elite Luftwaffe unit. This particular aircraft had been flown by Oberfeldwebel Herbert Isachen, (check details) who had been busy against Allied shipping judging by the specialist 20mm MG FF cannon fitted in the nose. It also had Kuto-Nase balloon-cable cutters fitted to the wings. The crew had been taken prisoner, and it turned out that Lt. Isachen had flown a remarkable 328 sorties in his operational career, stretching back to the beginning of the war. He had seen action over Poland, Norway, France, Britain and now the Mediterranean. This was to be the last of our actions for many weeks.


So, there you go - that's what I have. Most is on tape - except some details e.g. the combat report. I've edited the beer swigs out too. Incidently, I have a photo of the offending e/aircraft (L1 +RH) grounded on the desert - but the damn .jpg filesize won't allow me to upload to the TOCH forum. Any technical minded members know how to reduce it's size, and then I can show you (?!) I'm still a bit worried about getting the detail right on this series of incidents. All comments welcome. Cheers, guys. RO.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

PS oops, nearly forgot - thank you George, Brian and Jim for your inputs !! Your comments and opinions are valued, I assure you.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Photo of desert wreck attached - minimal damage apparent. Note missing swasticka ripped from tail. Can't quite make out the code - but could this be L1+RH ? RO.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

I'm pretty sure that that is Isachsen's machine, or at least that is how its been described in the past - from McAulay's book.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Thanks for that photo, RO. Although the book on LG 1 certainly labels it as L1+RK, looking closely at the letters to the right of the Balken Cross, I am inclined to see that 4th letter as an ‘H' rather than a ‘K.'

The narrative in Taghon, Vol. 2, p. 166, notes that the a/c of Ofw. Isachsen was shot down by your dad and F/O Shipard, but, the date is shown as 08.01.1943, not 16/17.01.43. And, as I noted in my 1st reply, the He 111 you inquired about was also shot down on 9.1.43.

"Eventually came in from dead astern and open fire at range of 100 yards with a 4 sec burst. E/A immediately caught fire in both engines and fuselage and went down vertically. No return fire experienced – own aircraft struck by pieces from E/A but no damage done. E/A identified as Ju88. Claim one Ju88 destroyed." (From your Dad's narrative)

But, Ofw. Isachsen says he was hit only in the left engine, and was able to maintain control over the a/c on single engine power. Being over the water, the crew had to decide whether to fly north or south. They decided to fly south to Africa, and after passing the coast began looking for somewhere to land. As it turned out they landed in a mine-field, but all survived. And, a short time later became PoWs.

I think that, indeed, your father's crew did score its victory on the 16/17th and shot down either the Ju 88 of Lt. Werner Schmitz, L1+FN, #142 319, which crashed into the sea, with no survivors (which would seem to agree with your father's narrative of the a/c diving vertically); or the Ju 88 of Ogefr. Scheda, L1+EN, #142 305, from which the crew was able to parachute and be taken prisoner.

Hope this helps,
George

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

George - do you have any details on why Isachsen was forbidden to fly ?

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Ok, thanks Jim. I take it, the correct code then, is L1+RH - bit difficult to see from the photo ? I only ask given your earlier statement :

I did a little more digging on this last night, and found something else that sheds more light on 16th Jan 1943. Extract from 89's Squadron History (Auth Joe Warne) :

'On 16th Jan., F/O Shipard/FS Oxby flew V8447 with 2 passengers to Martuba No 4, (??) and returned with F/O Edwards. He was the controller that night when Shipard/Oxby scrambled in V8447 and shot down two Ju 88s withing 10 minutes around 19.30 hrs. in the area of Tobruk. One crashed on attempting to land and 3 bailed out (one being wounded). That same night, with the same controller, FSs Ronald Gilham Peteres/ Frank Halliday were also scrambled, in X8136, and attacked another Ju 88, observed by F/O Shipard. But the Beaufighter collided with the target and both aircraft went into the sea 10 miles east of Tobruk, with no survivors. It was later established that II/KLG 1 lost two Ju 88s over Tobruk.'

Still have several questions. 1. If Isachsen was one of the POWs - then who were the other two mentioned in Oxby snr's logbook ? 2. Would 'k' reports exist for the prisoner interrogations at PRO, or were these completed only for POWs shot down over Blighty ?

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Wow George - where DID you get all this stuff ?? Really excellent work !! I can't explain the date problem - Here's what Oxby snr's logbook entry says for the 16th Jan 43:

Date 16.1.43 V8447 Beaufighter. NFTs at 1105 and 1200. To 'Martuba with two passengers'
1900 Pilot F/O Shipard. Scramble. Two contacts 1. One Ju 88 destroyed. 2. One Ju 88 destroyed. 3 POW. Flying times : night 1.25.

Date discrepancy is a real mystery ?? Can't make that one out, partic as Warnes's Squadron history account says it was the 16th too !
RO.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Although the book on LG 1 certainly labels it as L1+RK, looking closely at the letters to the right of the Balken Cross, I am inclined to see that 4th letter as an ‘H' rather than a ‘K.'

I agree with you on this.

The narrative in Taghon, Vol. 2, p. 166, notes that the a/c of Ofw. Isachsen was shot down by your dad and F/O Shipard, but, the date is shown as 08.01.1943, not 16/17.01.43. And, as I noted in my 1st reply, the He 111 you inquired about was also shot down on 9.1.43.

Why the date is shown in your source as the 8th Jan is a mystery. I've got the 16th in both Oxby snrs logbook, and Sqdn history. Puzzled by that one. I thought the He111 was the e/a involved in the collision with Peters/Halliday's Beau - both a/c ultimately crashing into the sea. But that can't be correct. The collision was apparently the same night, the 16th Jan, and the He111 was shot down on the 9th. Also, Warne says the e/a was a Ju 88, not a Heinkel. Hmmm.

"Eventually came in from dead astern and open fire at range of 100 yards with a 4 sec burst. E/A immediately caught fire in both engines and fuselage and went down vertically. No return fire experienced – own aircraft struck by pieces from E/A but no damage done. E/A identified as Ju88. Claim one Ju88 destroyed." (From your Dad's narrative)

But, Ofw. Isachsen says he was hit only in the left engine, and was able to maintain control over the a/c on single engine power. Being over the water, the crew had to decide whether to fly north or south. They decided to fly south to Africa, and after passing the coast began looking for somewhere to land. As it turned out they landed in a mine-field, but all survived. And, a short time later became PoWs.

Judging from the photo, I'd say the damage to Ofw. Isachsen's a/c looks pretty superficial. I'm inclined to think his account is probably more reliable than the combat report - he was flying the a/c after all - and he would have had nothing to prove. It could well be Oxby snr/Shipard were mistaken, having seen the a/c perhaps only briefly going down, and at night. Who knows, it must have been diffiuclt not to imagine that you saw both engines smoking, and with the thing losing altitude so rapidly - when in reality, the e/a is simply trying to avoid further punishment ?

I think that, indeed, your father's crew did score its victory on the 16/17th and shot down either the Ju 88 of Lt. Werner Schmitz, L1+FN, #142 319, which crashed into the sea, with no survivors (which would seem to agree with your father's narrative of the a/c diving vertically); or the Ju 88 of Ogefr. Scheda, L1+EN, #142 305, from which the crew was able to parachute and be taken prisoner.

Hmmm. Neither of these options seem right to me. The logbook mentions 3 POWs, (which ok, could have come from L1+EN I guess) but how do we explain the Ju 88 photo in the desert ? It don't look a whole lot like L1+EN to me.. and remember Isachen's machine had cable cutting gear, and heavy cannon for shipping strikes. And finally, those photo(s) were taken by Shipard - and they do look more like L1+RH to me.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Ofw. Isachsen simply stated he was sick -- "Ich war krank und hatte drei Tage Flugverbot."

I have a feeling you are confusing Isachsen (8th) and Schmitz (16th). As I said earlier, Isachsen and his crew all survived the forced landing without major injury. Scheda and his crew were able to parachute to safety, but their a/c crashed. Schmitz and his crew were unable to parachute to safety, so their a/c is probably the one your dad's a/c hit which "went down vertically."

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Geez ! It certainly gives one food for thought. George, I'm grateful for the information, and I will certainly be including its content as a speculative discussion in the book. Even if there remain some questions in my mind - it'll at least leave some research questions unanswered for those people interested enough, and better equipped than myself - to unearth the facts surrounding Oxby snr's darkest deeds. (!!) Many thanks, once again.

Kind regards, Richard.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Richard Oxby,

Any news about the biography of your late father, S/L Oxby (senior)?? It has been quite a long time (11 years). I do wish fervently that this book will arise and that we will be able to read very soon.

Adriano B.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

I edited the manuscript for Richard Oxby and returned it but I've heard no more from him since October 2015, sad to say.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Hello NICK,

I remember well that Richard was very anxious to edit and have the work published. Certainly the Aerial and Historical Community (we included) will receive this work with pleasure (and read it avidly too).

Since you Edited the work, we can wait for a masterpiece then...

Maybe Xmas will bring us this new biography...and let's hope Richard is all right, in health and Peace too.

Thanks Nick for the message and information...by the way, since you read the raw material, how long is the book and how deep it is? I mean, does it cover all Oxby flights and trainings, all his victories were matched (100% or 90%, etc.)? Are there pictures of some of the LW airmen he flew against, etc.?

Adriano B.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

148,000 words unedited and 87,000 edited. It started just before he joins the RAFVR in 1940 and went on through the war. I didn't have all the potential illustrations, so I can't answer your last point.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

SO 1/16/43 5. LG 1 F Tobruk (Zielgebiet) Abschuß durch Beaufighter, 98.Sq (16./17.1.43) Ju 88 A-4 142305 L1+EN 100 Ogfr. Scheda, Horst KG, (+) Ziel: Schiffe bei Tobruk Nordafrika (B) Gefr. Gehrken, Hans [KG] / (Bf) Uffz. von Killich-Horn, Hans [KG] / (Bs) Gefr. Scheideck, Arnulf [KG] 1-3-0-0 Iraklion

SO 1/16/43 5. LG 1 F Tobruk (Zielgebiet) Abschuß durch Beaufighter, 98.Sq (16./17.1.43) Ju 88 A-4 142319 L1+FN 100 Ltn. Schmitz, Werner vm. Ziel: Schiffe bei Tobruk Nordafrika (B) Uffz. Keller, Anton [vm.] / (Bf) Ltn. Denzin, Heinz [vm.] / (Bs) Ogfr. Rampelberg, Josef [vm.] 4-0-0-0 Iraklion

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Genlemen,
I have 6N + DP sa also Jean-Louis Roba

Rüdiger

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Shouldn't that be No. 89 Squadron, rather than 98?

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

NICK and OXBY,

Would you have any news about the biography of the greatest RAF R/O of WW2? Am surely one of the new readers when it will appear. Please do keep the Community and Members of this Board informed if and when it eventually got published...

Adriano.

Re: Ju88 losses over Tobruk 16th Jan 1943
 

Sorry Adriano,

Absolutely nothing to report. My emails went unanswered and I don't know what happened either to Richard Oxby or the manuscript, which is a great pity.