Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

Hi folks!

At the moment I'm doing some Ju 87 profiles. Also want to do Hans Ulrich Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193. The plane had a RLM 70/71/65 camouflage, a yellow fuselage band and the yellow V on the left wing. As these markings are markings for Luftflotte 4 I'm not sure if the plane also had yellow wing tips. Other planes of 10.(PZ)/SG 2 didn't have yellow wing tips.

Cheers, Simon

PS: Maybe someone can help me with pictures of Ju 87 G-1 with full markings. I have really many books about the Ju 87, but can't find a single picture were the markings are full visible.

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

Here are two lesser-known shots of Rudel back from a mission in Rumania.

Chris

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

Deciphered German signal of 22 September 1944 (Ultra HP 1207)

Early 22nd Luftflotte 4 appreciated that on Rumanian front "the enemy" was operating German aircraft in some cases with German markings. In order to identify German aircraft with certainty additional recognition markings in yellow paint ordered for Me 109, Fw 190, Ju 87, Ju 88, Ju 188, Hs 129, He 111 and Do 217. 40 cm ring around fuselage in front of wings. Lower side of port wing, whole width of wing a Victor [i.e. a "V"] open towards direction of flight with an angle of 45 degrees and arms 25 cm broad. The arms of the Victor to be carried over leading edge of wing to upper side for distance of 60 cm to permit recognition from above also. Completion to be reported by early 25th, from then on all above aircraft not carrying new marking could be fired on at 30 km distance from front.

To me that implies that the markings specified replaced the older ones but you could read it either way, I admit.

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

hello Mr Chatz
I read in your article that you have a lot of books on stuka,do you have anything on technical view,pictures?or plans?
kindly reg
phil
junkers@londoner.zzn.com

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

Rudels 87 was marked<-+- and hed yellow wingtips, not sure if those photos are of Rudel's bird, perhaps when taken on deleivery? To be honest, Dragon Models 1/72nd scale diecast of his Stuka is pretty spot on as far as markings go...
Kevin

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

AFAIK, the numbers painted on the Stuka's wheel spats denote training machines.

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

Really?
Where does this info come from?

Re: Numbers on spats
 

Certainly some training machines carried numbers on the spats (wheel covers) or engine cowling, but the use of numbers with St.G. 2 is quite common on Ju 87Ds of all three Gruppen in Russia.

One of Rudel's Ju 87D-1s while he was Staffelkapitaen of 1./St.G. 2 was T6+HH, with a prominent "8" on the outer part of the wheel cover (8 = H).

You have probably seen Schmid's T6+BN "Baerli" of 5./St.G. 2 with "B2" on the wheel covers/spats. There are many other examples.

Many people are familiar with Rudel's Ju 87G-1 with "B2" on the spats. The use of "17" on this G-2 Kanonenvogel is intriguing, as it is clearly not "Q." My bet would be that this high number is used in this instance because it would avoid duplication with other machines with earlier-in-the-alphabet letters/numbers, reducing confusion. But this is just a guess.

Don't know if this provides light, but it's not intended as heat, GRM

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

Hello!

My working theory about the number "17" on the Ju 87 G spat is following:

Cirkus Rudel was commanded to Baltic Front in July 1944 and returned back to Hungary in August 1944. Finnish liaison officer in Luftflotte 1 mentions about the unit and IIRC it consisted of 32 Ju 87s of which only three were "Kanonenvogels".

From the data at http://www.ww2.dk/air/attack/sg2.htm (Michael Holm's site) I have interepreted that the Rudel Commando was in essence III/SG 2. Interesting is that after returning to Hungary III/SG 2 tranfers the remaining Ju 87Gs (all two) to another unit. This another unit most likely is 10.(Pz)/SG 2.

My guess is that the two new planes got running numbers from 10.(Pz)/SG 2. Allocation perhaps taking place already during July - 10th Staffel starts the month with 9 Ju 87D and 6 Ju 87 G so next running numbers would have been 16 and 17. The codes may have been (and remained) as those of III Gruppe Stab ( T6+_D) as they are in the photo.

IIRC on the background on the other photo is flying T6+FD (16?) as pair. Personally I would be much more interested in this pilot&plane (as it is "non-Rudel"). Especially the Stammkennzeichen. Thank You CJE for the photos.


Just my two (Euro)cents,

Kari

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

I think there was not only one Kanonenvogel used by Rudel, but several, as these A/C were very much subject to ground fire.

The "Yellow V" below the wing was used starting in Autumn '44 over Hungary, also by units like JG52.

During August '44 (maybe also July), Rudel&parts of SG2 were in Estonia and northern Latvia (?, german Lettland) , but definitely never in Finland. The Stuka-unit which fought in Finland summer 6-8'44 was I/SG 3 within "Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey".

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

Hi!

Yogybär, how do you comprehend term "liaison officer in Luftflotte 1"?

I am fully aware of all you write. The liaision officer mentioned about Cirkus Rudel's activity within Lfl1 (= Estonia, Latvia). If you read carefully I have not written about any operations in Finland. Please do not jump in conclusions too fast.

Regards,

Kari

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

hi all,

following the photographic sources, the documented Rudel's G-2 in the last months of war are the following (in chronological order):

1 - 'T6+AD', with white nr. 17 on the spats

2 - '< - + -', WNr 494193, with yellow fuselage band, underside yellow 'V' and apparently no yellow areas underwing

2 - '< - + -', WNr unknown to me, with the chevron slightly larger, without yellow fuselage band and apparently without yellow underwing areas, but with two small parallele oblique white stripes on the rudder.
With this Kanonenvogel Rudel surrendered at Kitzingen on May 1945.

hope this helps

Piero

Re: Rudels surrender Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr.
 

Piero, this intentionally 'pranged' Ju 87G-2 was WNr.494110. The WNr. was painted in black rather than white, but is visible in some photos in Jim Crow's collection

Cheers, GRM

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

Many thanks for the precious information,GRM!

Piero

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

Photos of the final Rudel Stuka are also published in Wings of the Black Cross Number 3 with associated profile work by Tom Tullis.

HTH

Mark Proulx

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

Hi all!

Thank you very much for all the help I got. I will finish my profile just with the yellow V and without yellow wingtip and without STKZ.

I want to extend my question! Some G-1 flown by Luftflotte 4 also had flamedampers. Does anybody know pictures showing the markings of these planes?

Cheers, Simon

Re: Rudels Ju 87 G-2 W.Nr. 494193 markings
 

Yes, Kari... I just read "finnish" and off I went to "correct" ...:o