Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Uffz Heinz Krösing 1.(F)/123 bacame a POW 22Aug43 (shotdown by Spitfire IX (F/L Kenneth B.L. Debenham 249 Sqn)). It is stated in both "Those Other Eagles" and "Spitfires Over Sicily" that Krösing was a recipient of the Ritterkreuz.

I can not find any details of Krösing's award of the RK (or DKiG) can anyone tell me the date he received this award (if indeed he was a RKT)

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

I do not find him listed in either of Veit Scherzer's volumes, Die Träger des Deutschen Kreuzes in Gold der Luftwaffe 1941-1945 Scherzer's Militair Verlag, 1992), and Ritterkreuz Träger 1939-1945 (Scherzers Militaire-Verlag, 2005).

Perhaps Brian Cull has further information.

Frank.

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the answer. Like you I can't find any reference to him receiving the RK (or DKiG) in any of the usual sources, that's why I'm thinking maybe it's an error. I've tried spelling variations and still have been unable to find a match.

Cheers

Andy Fletcher

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Ju 88D-1, 430651, WISSEL, Ltn. Günther (B)/KRÖSING, Uffz. Heinz (F), , 1.(F), 123, wei§ D, 4U+DH, , , 22-Aug-43, Crew POW, being shot down by Spitfire from 249 Sq. (F/L Debenham). FSA, F and Bf WIA., Loss report says '4U+GH'., Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.20; Cull, Spitfires Over Sicily, p.196, , North of Grand Harbor, Malta, 100%, F

Looks like a two-fer RK crew. There was also a list from an old Fernauklarer book by ???? - can't remember name - one of the most proilific authors on German avaiation ever.

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Hi Jim,

Yes "Spitfires Over Sicily" also states that "The Observer Officer [Lt Günther Wissel a double Knights Cross recipient] ordered the crew to bale out".

I can find no reference to Wissel receiving the RK either (as well as Krösing) in the usual sources (or DKiG). Maybe RK is mentioned in error for EK in both cases.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Good afternoon Mr Fletcher,

I found the same in Brian Cull's highly recommendable "249 at Malta" where on p185 a 22Aug1943 incident is described: "...The W/Op, Uffz Günther Lehmann, was less seriously wounded, while the observer, Lt Günther Wissel, a double Knights Cross recipient, escaped with only a dunking..."

What is the story behind that ?

Michael

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

There are plenty of Knight's Cross holders that never made the list at all.

Edward L. Hsiao

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

The Kracker Luftwaffe Archive tells us:


Ju 88D-1 Werk # 430651 "4U + CH" (lost 8/22/43) Wound Badge, Observer Operational Clasp
MIA with his Observer Lt Günther Wissel and two other unnamed crew over Malta 22 August, 1943 probably due to enemy return fire (Ju 88 Loss List). Added: POW; SD with wounds and hospitalized at St Patrick's before encarsiration (German Losses Over Malta).

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

The German POWs Malta list has Ff Uffz Heinz Kroesing wounded born 17-12-19 , B Ltn. Guenther Wissel wounded born 11-8-20 , Bf Uffz Guenther Lehmann wounded born 11-2-22. All taken to 45 General Hospital St. Patricks possibly an AD(I)K report exists which might say if any were RK holders.

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

I would like to know what a double RK was? RK with Bar?

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

In the appendices to Harald Rabeder's "Die Knullenkopstaffel" this pilot is listed as Uffz. Krössing [double-s] and the aircraft as Ju 88 T-1, W.Nr. 430651, 4U+GH.

The narrative says "The pilot, Uffz. Krössing, has already been awarded the Frontflugspange in Silver". The appendix on special awards to members of 1.(F)/123 lists only Ehrenpokal and DKiG recipients, no Ritterkreuz-Träger at all.

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

maybe the second grade, a knight's cross with oak leaves?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight...the_Iron_Cross

but I've never heard of "double" either ...


regards
ghost

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Quite obviously a case of mistaking both classes of iron crosses rather than the much higher knights cross.

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

may I ask from whom?

ghost

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

That's a convincing explanation.

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Hi guys

I've only just spotted this discussion - most interesting. However, I can't throw any light on my statements regarding the decorations awarded.

Not being a Luftwaffe expert (nor any other type of expert) I have to rely on what others have written. No excuse, I know, but one can't question every so-called fact one reads elsewhere.

In defence, I can only say that I didn't make up the statements!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Brian,

Guess that we all make mistakes, as Human Beings.

Your statement above just show your humility and grandness as a Historian, in my opinion.

It may be impossible for us all here to know just about everything about WW2 combats, etc...or to cross-check everything (we should) before writing...this is why, some times, one or two small mistakes may appear here or there in books (not only yours, but the sole I wrote, and other's authors too). That not make you all, acknowledged writers worst or better. It is the summary of one's work that do represent one's life of researches, etc.

Me too I understood that the particular airman was granted both Classes of Eisern Kreuz (EKII and EKI); not the RK or even EL...and, as some members of this board have checked on the RK-Lists or DKiG-lists and books, there is no match.

KEEP GOING...wonderful work that of yours.

A.

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Hello Brian,

hope you're doing fine.
Adriano Baumgartner is right: the abovementioned detail does not diminish the high praiseworthiness of your work and your modesty underscores your credibility
I've worked through 4 Brian Cull books so far and I enjoyed them all very much !

All the best to your projects,

Michael

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Hi guys

I've been scratching the old cranium regarding from where I might have obtained the information!

The best that I have come up with is that I believe I had access to an A.I.(K) interrogation report. I will have to hunt amongst tons of rubbish in an effort to find it, and if I do I'll let you know!

In passing, thanks to Adriano and Michael for votes of confidence!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Hello Gentlemen,

indeed there is but one odd example for a double-RK: Hermann Göring sometimes wore at the same time his Grand Cross + his "normal" RK + his Pour le Mérite.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015...8312276579.jpg

Michael

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

...but for him you would expect this!

Re: Uffz Heinz Krösing RK?
 

Have you read the Göring biography by David Irving ?
It provides a comprehensive panorama of his complex character.
Have a nice Saturday,
Michael