15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

I have documentation that indicates Hauptmann Herbert Kaminski 2./ ZG 26 claiming a "Morane" on 15 May 1940. Unfortunately in looking through current sources including Tony Woods claims lists in seems that only 9./ZG 26 and Stab of III./ZG26 made claims for the Zerostorer units operating on that day.

Does anyone have other sources or material which would help confirm this claim by Kaminski?

Cheers

Jeremy

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Hi,

The victory claims by units of ZG26 other than III./ZG26 have never been published. The fact that they are not on the Tony Woods website,] does not mean that no claims were made by the other units of ZG26. These have just not ever been publisted.

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Hi Jeremy,

do you have the time and place of this claim? There are some candidates for this victory (some french fighters s/d by unknown Bf110 unit).

Regards

Robert

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Larry/ Robert,

Thanks for your input I was thinking that might be the case in terms of the loss listings for I Gruppe not being published.

The only additional info. I have as to the place is "an der Maas", or near the Maas, no time is indicated. I do know that 2./ZG 26 was in action that day over the Belgian border and Kaminski and his WO/AG were subsqently wounded and a/c damaged in combat.

The claims come from Kaminski's Wehrpas which neatly tabulate 5 of his 7 victories the "Morane" being his first. Interestingly enough in his Vorschlagliste Nr. 5 for his award of the Knights Cross the aircraft is indicated as a "Curtis" (P-36?).

Regards

Jeremy

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Hi,


Kaminski together with 2 other Bf110 from the 2/ZG26 was shot down (100% loss I think he crash-landed and the plane was subsequently written-off) in combat with MB-152s from the GCI/8 which suffered no losses around 11.15 on the 15.05.40. His WO/AG was Obgefr.Karl-Heinz Brockstedt, who was also wounded in this combat.

Regards

Robert

P.S. Do you have any details concerning his other claims?

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Hi Robert,

The last two victories of Kaiminski are not listed in his WP but are listed in Prien's JG 53 where Kaminski was serving as Kommodore of I Gruppe JG53.

The other five excluding the one listed above were all during his tenure with ZG 26.

Nr. 2-3 On 7.10.40 he is listed as having shot down a Spitfire and a Hurricane over Yeoville.

Nr. 4 On 16.5.41 a Gloster (presumably a Gladiator) over Iraklion (Crete)

Nr. 5 On 22.6.41 a Martin Bomber near Lunna.

I have more images/data on Kaminski which as I get my butt in gear will add to my website.

Cheers

Jeremy

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Hi,

his first victory - 15.05.40? - was Morane or Curtiss? Sorry, forget my question. I just saw your previous posts and all is clear to me.

Robert

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Robert,

His Wehrpas lists it as a Morane.

Cheers

Jeremy

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Hi All

Has anyone a relevant web site for the claims listings of Tony Wood?
The one I have is a dead end

Cheers
Stig

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Hello

http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/tonywood.htm

:)

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Thanks Steph

The previous web page although still carrying the same address goes to something TOTALLY different, enough to get you a divorce if your wife looks over your shoulder...:)

I have the lists all downloaded, but figured it would be a good idea to take another look, and I guess surprise is just the middlename of what I got!!!

Cheers
Stig

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Hi All, I'm back...

Looking at Tony Wood's pages I am quite surprised that there seems to be no victory claims by any ZG during 1941 on the eastern front. Since there must have been, how come Tony and obviosuly no one else has managed to locate any? Are they especially difficult to find or has every researcher found them "uninteresting"??

Why I ask because I was interested in the topic arising regarding Kaminski. He was, if I have understood it right, one of those colorful characters inside the Luftwaffe and also survived the war. He also must have been one of the "lowest" scoring RK winners in fighter circles of the Luftwaffe.

Jeremy
Do you have some idea regarding his 5th victory and where it took place?
Seems like after the Battle of Crete, I./ZG 26 was moved to the Eastern Front. I cannot locate the place Lunna you list. Any chance of advising a bigger place I can look for? The Martin bomber referred to is probably a Tupolev SB bomber, right?

Anyone who can give me more details about his dates (how long was he Kommandeur of I./ZG 26 for example?) than this page? http://luftwaffe.cz/kaminski.html
The victory dates there differ from your list, Jeremy, and I wonder from where the claim of a B-17 with ZG 76 in 1943/4 originate?

Cheers
STig

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Hi Stig,

I believe if you search the Grodno region of Poland/Russia you will find Lunna. Since this victory was a fairly early combat relative to the start of the Russian campaign some of the fighting was over Polish airspace or at least areas contested by both the Russians and Poles.

And you are probably correct about it being a Tupolev SB bomber.

Kaminski started his tenure heading I./ ZG 26 on 25.5.41, this according to his Wehrpas. As for the victory dates these again are taken from Kaminski's actual documents so I would tend to believe that they are more accurate than the attached link. Not sure where the B-17 victory came from.

In terms of his Knights Cross, his reccomendation for the award (Vorschlagliste) clearly states that his aerial victories coupled with his success against land targets (artillery, armour, etc.) were the reasons behind his award.

By most accounts Kaminski was considered a fairly mediocre pilot but was apparently a decent leader and as noted was quite a character within the Luftwaffe. He did survive the war, took part in the post war Bundeswehr and was killed in an auto accident in the 1970's

Cheers

Jeremy

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

For anyone who is interested here is the link directly to my website for Kaminski. Please note that this is a work in progress and as I get more time I will add additional images, information and in some cases better visuals.

http://aufhimmelzuhause.com/id44.htm

Comments/ criticism all welcome.

Jeremy

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Thanks Jeremy

Appreciated!

Jeremy, you have probably unintentionally left a blank on the date 25.5.1941, the day Kaminski took over I./ZG 26. Is it correct that Kaminski then served until 26.6.1941 in this capacity?
Anyone who knows who took over?

Also did he serve with ZG 76 until 9.8.1944? I must confess the documents are not all that easy to read...

Quite interesting how sloppily they (he?) wrote A/B 41 in his Wehrpass, A4i at one place....

Cheers
Stig

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Stig

Thanks for catching the missing entry as you can see I need to update that page considerably. The writing is quite erratic from clerk to clerk some having better handwriting to be sure.

Yes he did serve with ZG 76, as Gruppenkommodore until the date noted he was wounded on or around that time which is what finally sent him to command the training unit.

Hptm Wilhelm Spies took over command of I./ZG26 from Kaminski

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Stig, it quite common in handwritten German of the period. Small 1 wit dot above. Common in logbooks for example.

regards,
Pawel

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

To change the subject somewhat - does anyone here have contact with Mr. Butler? I tried some time ago to contact him about an updated claims list, but never eceived any reply.

Re: 15 May 40 Kaminski victory
 

Thanks Guys

Cheers
Stig