Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Somebody can help me with information concerning Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF) ? I know he received the British D.F.C. and D.S.O. and he was an Osage form Oklahoma. Many thanks in advance.

Montana

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

What exactly do you want to know?

He was with 71 Squadron, and was shot down and taken prisoner on 31/10/41, after shooting down 3 Me109s.

http://www.eaglesquadrons.com/copper....php?album=110

There's also some info on him at:

http://www.minneapolis.afrc.af.mil/s...061228-114.pdf

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Thanks a lot for your help. It is a good start for researches concerning a genuine pilot !

Rgds
Montana

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Hi Montana & Amrit1

I don't wish to start another controversy, but I am sure that Daniel did not receive the DSO or DFC (may have been awarded a US DFC though?). Nor was he credited with any kills as far as I am aware, even though I have seen it written that he shot down up to five German aircraft including a Ju88, but none of these appear in various squadron records. Perhaps someone can prove otherwise.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Hi Brian,

I agree. I'm having problems trying to find info on his awards too. Nothing on the LG about either, and I wondered whether the DFC was American too.

As to his 3 claims, he states in "The Eagle Squadrons" by Haugland that on October 13, 1941, flying as a pilot officer for 71 Squadron, whilst escorting Blenheims to Bethune, France:

Hopefully, someone can confirm three losses in the area of Bethune.

Cheers
A

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Date confirmed 13th October 1941 - Spitfire AD112. Svcnr J/15016 from Strubb City, Kansas. Camp L3 PoW Nr. 1415. As far as I know no British awards.

Henk.

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

It does seem that his remarkable claims lack any Luftwaffe losses to support them.

It appears that only one Bf109 (from Stab/JG26) was shotdown during the day and this is credited to a Blenheim. A second Bf109 (from II/JG2) made a forcelanding after an engine failure,together with one Fw190 (from JG26) which forcelanded with damage.

All together it wasn't a good day for Fighter Command with 12 Spitfires, 1 Hurricane and 1 Blenheim lost.

Regards,

Steve

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Hi,

Says that he served with six RAF Squadrons including 242, 71,121 133.

Anyone know the rest ?

71 Sqn first victory was a shared claim on Feb 15th 41.
Anyone know of any earlier unsuported claims by 71 Sqn ?

Alex

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Joss Leclercq over on rafcommands.com posted this in response to my query:

Seems to clear up the decorations issue but not the claims. As to the issue of the age discrepancy I would direct people to the the pdf link I posted in an earlier message. Thank you Joss.

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Hi guys

Quotes from the book The Eagles' War regarding Gilmore Daniel:

He states he was 14 when he joined the RCAF at Moose Jaw in December 1939, having a 'doctored' birth certificate provided by his father. Presumably arrived in UK late 1940/early 1941. Sergeant Pilot

Quotes from above book, slightly abridged:

"After a short time in Hurricanes with 121 Squadron, I went to 129 Squadron flying Spitfires and shot down a Ju88 making a twilight raid on Hull."

"From 129 Squadron I went to 43 Squadron flying Hurricanes again. I scored a probable here. I also helped in a rescue mission which later earned me a DFC. There was a notation on my discharge saying the DFC had been gazetted."

"Next I went to 257 Squadron where I shot down two 109s and shot up many E-boats. Then I transferred to 242 Squadron. I was flying Hurricanes when I was shot down for the first time. A He111 shot my radiator off, but I was credited with probably destroying him. I crash-landed south-east of Norwich but wasn't hurt."

"From 242 I went across the field to where 133 Squadron was forming. I got off on the wrong foot as usual and (S/Ldr) Brown had me posted to 19 Squadron. I shot down a He111 off Great Yarmouth. The bomber set my plane on fire. I baled out into the drink and was rescued by a patrol boat from Felixstowe."

"I was transferred to 401 Squadron. They were being equipped with P-39s. We were assigned to the Fighter Development Unit which had many different types of planes - Me109, FW190, Ju88, Ju87, He111 and Do217 as well as P-40 and P-36, and Whirlwinds, Typhoons, CR42. We strafed flak ships at Ostend and Calais trying out American planes."

"I was reassisgned to 133 Squadron for three weeks and received my commission. Then I went to 71 Squadron."

He was shot down by a Bf109 on 13 October 1941. The book states: "He had blasted the lead 109F in a formation of three and it had exploded, sending the other two planes down as well. Other enemy planes then set Daniel's aircraft afire and he parachute in to the Channel."

Book continues: POW 1941-45. Retired from the RAF (?) in 1946 as squadron leader (?) - my question marks!

Joined USAF in 1948 as Technical Sergeant. Flew one tour of Korea as Okinawa-based Technical Sergeant; flew second tour as 2/Lt radar-operator in F-94s of 319th FIS and was awarded a US DFC for a sortie on 4 August 1952. By 1959 he was piloting F-86Ds of 512thFIS during Lebanon Crisis covering Marine landings. Then became Base Operations Officer Beirut. In Vietnam 1966-67 as Staff Officer directing covert operations, awarded Bronze Star. Retired from USAF in 1969

Summary of above: RCAF 1940-41

121 Squadron
129 Squadron claimed Ju88
43 Squadron claimed probable (109?). Allegedly awarded DFC for rescue operation
257 Squadron claimed two Bf109s and many E-boats damaged
242 squadron claimed He111 probable - also shot down and crash-landed
133 Squadron
19 Squadron claimed He111 - also shot down & baled out into sea
401 Squadron
FDU strafed flak ships flying P-40 (?)
133 Squadron commissioned
71 Squadron claimed three Bf109s - shot down and POW

He is quoted as saying. "One might think that serving in so many RAF squadrons, I set some kind of record. It was not too unusual to be in units for a short time."

Well guys, pick the bones out of that!!!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

hello and thank you Brian,

Has anyone any references as to any of 242 Sqn aircraft coming down SE of Norwich in the time frame ?
His DFC was Gazetted, presumably in the London Gazette?
Anyone found it ?
Alex

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

A further anomoly - if, as implied, Daniel was awarded a decoration for his involvement in a rescue whilst with 129 Squadron, I would think it more likely to have been a DFM than a DFC - he would have been a Sergeant Pilot at the time. I don't think he received either and that the whole story is 'confused.' The DFC mentioned was probably the US DFC awarded for a sortie in Korea in 1952, which he did receive.

As far as I am aware, none of his claims appear in the respective ORBs.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

My book "242 Squadron: The Canadian Years", published in 1981 has a list of all pilots in the unit up to October 1941. Mr. Daniel is not mentioned. Nor is there anything about him being in combat with the squadron. Did I miss him in my research ? Or was he ever in the squadron ?

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Hello,

Check the link below for info:

http://collections.civilisations.ca/...esultsList.php

Alexander

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Hello,

Try this one. There's a problem with the other link.
2 Articles about Daniel Gilmore in "The Globe and Mail" of 1941.

http://collections.civilisations.ca/...esultsList.php

Alexander

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Hello,

It's me again...it seems not to work.
Use the search function, type his name and you'll find 2 articles about Daniel Gilmore.
http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/newspapers/intro_e.html

Alexander

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

I just received another response to this query over on rafcommands. Thanks Phil

Phil Listemann

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

"I was transferred to 401 Squadron. They were being equipped with P-39s. We were assigned to the Fighter Development Unit which had many different types of planes - Me109, FW190, Ju88, Ju87, He111 and Do217 as well as P-40 and P-36, and Whirlwinds, Typhoons, CR42. We strafed flak ships at Ostend and Calais trying out American planes."

No.401 Squadron was by then a Spitfire outfit - and the RAF as of that date had no captured FW.190s to test-fly. It also seems doubtful that the RAF (even the Fighter Development Unit) would be playing with P-36s - hardly a modern type of machine !

The RCAF List for 1 July 1945 shows J15016 G.C. Daniel as a Flight Lieutenant (seniority from 19 August 1943).

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

I can now add a few details of his career. Born in November 1917, he enlisted in the RCAF, 20 July 1940 in Winnipeg. He was not immediately assigned to the training "pipeline" but went to a place I cannot decypher from a bad microfilm (though it may have been a Manning Depot). He was then posted to No.2 Initial Training School (Regina) on 31 August 1940. His promotion to Leading Aircraftman (22 October 1940) marked his graduation from ITS and he was posted on that date to No.1 EFTS. He was next sent to No.2 Service Flying Training School (Uplands, Ottawa) on 11 December 1940, qualifying as pilot on 21 February 1941 when he was promoted Sergeant. He is next shown as going to the Embarkation Depot on 4 March 1941 and to the RAF overseas on 25 March 1941 (this date may be either an embarkation date from Halifax or a disembarkation date in the United Kingdom). I cannot further follow his overseas posting, but can confirm that he was commissioned on 19 August 1941. He waa subsequently reported a POW (13 Otober 1941), promoted Flying Officer whilst in captivity (19 August 1942) and then Flight Lieutenant (19 August 1943). He was reported safe in the UK as of 10 May 1945 and repatriated to Canada on 1 June 1945. He was retained in various Canadian units including No.8 Repair Depot (12 June 1945), No.2 Flying Training School (5 December 1945), and No.6 OTU (22 January 1946). He was released from the RCAF on 6 June 1946.

Re: Lt Gilmore C. Daniel (RCAF)
 

Hi guys

Well, after all these revelations, I assume we can conclude that all written in The Eagle's War was journalist rubbish!

Shame!

Brian