Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello,

Who can give me complementary information about the shoting down of a Ju 87B, Wnr 0870387 (?) of I/StG2 over Belgium on May 11 1940
(+/- 15.00 Hrs). Aircraft crashed in Belgium, region of Saint-Trond.
Crewmembers were:
Uffz Hahn Richard (KIA) ,first buried at Eben-Emael and reburied at Lommel cemetery after the war.
second crewmember ???
Thanks

Alexander

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hahn I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello again,

It's Richard Hahn instead of Hann Richard!!

Alexander

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

hello alexander,
do you know if it was a belly landing or a deep crash,?
phil
junkers@londoner.zzn.com

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello,

I've a doubt about that question. Aircraft could have done a belly landing after an aerial combat and revolved on it's axis during the landing....or turned upsite down and crashed.

Alexander

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

alex,that day there were about 5 stuka crashes in the area of sint-truiden-groot tienen.
4 cites have been located by us but only from 1 we know the names and it isn't your's.
if you know the crash-cite that might be of any help to me so i can put a identification on it.
kind reg
phil

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Here is what I have recorded for the crash you mention:

2./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Tirlemont and crashed at Attenhoven 3.30 p.m. Uffz R. Hahn killed. Lt S. Dryander captured unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello,

Could the second crewmember be Werk Heinz instead of S. Dryander?

Alexander

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Alexander,

Yes it could. What was posted is my reading of the original loss returns for I./StG2 which are not at all clear with regard to the pairing of crews. So herewith my 'take' on the losses for the unit on that date. If anyone can offer any additional information or amend/correct these details I will be delighted to hear from them.

1./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Returned severely damaged by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Tirlemont 3.30 p.m. Uffz H. Schneider killed, pilot unhurt. Aircraft damage state not recorded.

2./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Tirlemont and crashed near St Trond 3.30 p.m. Uffz H. Lange and Obergefr A. Fischer killed. Aircraft a write-off.

2./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Tirlemont and crashed at Attenhoven 3.30 p.m. Uffz R. Hahn killed. Lt S. Dryander captured unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.

2./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Tirlemont 3.30 p.m. Uffz H. Werk and Uffz E. Chuchra killed. Aircraft a write-off.

2./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Returned damaged by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Tirlemont 3.30 p.m. Gefr K-H. Schmidt badly wounded, pilot unhurt. Aircraft repairable.

3./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Maastricht 3.30 p.m. Uffz H. Diegmann killed. Uffz F. Fiebranz captured wounded. Aircraft a write-off.

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hi again,

Only Heinz Lange was buried on the "Ehrenfriedhof Brustem"..very strange because A. Fisher was his crewmember and not buried on that same cemetery!
Were Richard Hahn and Werk Heinz both pilots from StG2?

Alexander

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Alexander,

Uffz Heinz WERK was a pilot, Uffz Richard HAHN was a gunner.

The burial information you mention is potentially useful. If you have the burial place of all those killed it could help us better understand the crew pairings.

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hi Peter,

100% certitude that Heinz Lange was buried in Brustem! His first burial place was the airfield of Brustem. I've have a doubt if he was then transfered to Schuurhoven cemetery, Saint-Trond but one thing is also 100 % sure...he was afterwards buried at the Ehrenfriedhof of Brustem!!
Are you 100% sure that the second crewmember of Richard Hahn wasn't KIA that day?

Alexander

Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hi !

For the following pilots/crewmembers I have the original burial location :
Lange H. : Brustem
Hahn R. : Eben Emael
Werk H. : Eben Emael
Chuchra : Leuven (=Louvain)

I was told that based on the nr of the block and the gravenr at the German War Cemetery at Lommel it is possible to trace back the original burial location . Is this correct = ?

best regards

Luc

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello,

Luc, I was told the same. I can't say it excately for the other cemeteries but the soldiers who were buried on Ehrenfriedhof Brustem are now buried in Lommel cemetery, block 21.

The fact that Hahn R. and Werk H. were first buried in Eben-Emael can/mean(s) they were from the same crew.

Thanks,


Alexander

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Alexander & Luc,

When the Germans concentrated their war dead to cemeteries like Cannock Chase and, it seems also Lommel, they tended to bring them together en-bloc from smaller local cemeteries which makes sense. So it is possible to get an idea of the previous burial site from their present block/grave number though, in my experience, not an exact science but worth the effort as useful clues can often result. There is also no guarantee that the previous burial place was their original burial site, some being moved more than once.

It is striking how far apart these burials were but it would be most useful to know where Obergefr FISCHER was originally buried – anyone? Also, I confess that I had assumed that the crash reported at Attenhoven was down near Landen, but the burial of CHUCHRA at Leuven suggests that it was just north of there.

From Luc’s posting, my contention that WERK & CHUCHRA were a crew is plainly wrong – even accepting bale outs or badly wounded taken elsewhere for treatment, they were buried too far apart from one another. From the burial evidence I agree with Alexander that WERK & HAHN appear to make a much better pairing. Many thanks for the extra information and inputs, it is much appreciated.

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hi to all
Concerning that day and unit it seems that a Ju-87 B from the 2./St.G 2 T6+AK was shot down near Koninksem with Oblt Kädtler Arno (KIA) as pilot or gunner , I have no information on the second crewman
Regards
Phil

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello Phil,

He was with the Stab StG2 and their losses that day were as follows:

Stab StG2 Dornier Do17M. Believed shot down after low-level chase by S/L Dewar and F/O Mitchell of No. 87 Squadron during reconnaissance sortie over Tirlemont and belly-landed near St Trond 3.30 p.m. Fw H. Schindler and Uffz G. Muschner killed. Oberlt H. Metz (Staffelkapitän) captured unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.

Stab StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron between Tirlemont and Leuven 3.30 p.m. Oberlt A. Kädtler and Uffz H. Grüneklee killed. Aircraft a write-off.

Please, what is your source for those code letters ? Could be significant. Thanks.

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Many thanks Peter

I have the name Grünklee Heinz (KIA) as Funker +11/5/40 Lommel Block 19 Grab 533 but I was unable to fit his name with a pilot , the code letter if I remember well was found in the “Taglish verlust meldung” but unfortunately I am not sure at all .
Once again thanks for your accurate answer

Best regards
Phil

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello,

Grünklee Heinz (KIA) +11/5/40 buried in Lommel Block 19.....same block as Richard Hahn and Werk Heinz!! First burial place of those men...Eben Emaal! Possible??

Regards,

Alexander

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello Alexander
I have Koninksem 2KM SSW of Tongeren for the crash place
Best regards
Phil

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello,

According to the "Lijst der in Leuven begraven Duitse soldaten" (= "List of German soldiers buried at Leuven") the following two airmen of Stukageschwader Immelman were buried at Leuven (Louvain).

The two airmen are listed as #54 and #55:
54. HEINRICH BASLER./ 1.Stukageschw. Immelman.2/ 12-5-40
55. ERNST CHUCRA. / Stuka Immelman/ 11-5-40

Although BASLER died May 12th 1940 and CHUCRA May 11th 1940, I have often wondered if both men crewed together on May 11th, 1940.

Regards,
Dirk

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hi all Basler was killed at GEETBETS,few kilometers of sint truiden
kind reg
phil

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello,

Does the name of Heinrich Langene says something to anyone? This name can perhaps be linked to the crash at Grazen.
Regards,

Alexander

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Could be Uffz Lange Johann-Heinrich (KIA) maybe??
Regards
Phil

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Alexander,

For LANGE refer to my post of 27 June on this thread. How is he linked to a crash at Grazen ?

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello,

I meant LANGENE and not Lange. Perhaps can Phil Mertens tell us any details??? Somebody told me these were two different persons!
Greetings from Belgium.

Alexander

Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hi !

While trying to find out if Fw.Helmut Schindler is buried in Belgium, it was noted that a Fw.Helmut Schindler (born 14/06/1911 Breslau) was killed on 30/05/1940 at Dunkirchen St.Oktave - presently buried at Bourdon (France). (source: Volksbund website)

Could this be the same person and that he was captured following his crash and killed in France (as a pow) ?


Best regards

Luc

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello Luc,

Yes, the Helmuth SCHINDLER buried at Bourdon was Hilfsbeobachter in the Stab StG2 Dornier Do17M brought down near St Trond on 11 May 1940. Obviously captured and en-route back to England when killed at Dunkirk. Good information.

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

hello Alexander,
that lange could be the bordfunker of the stuka crash at geetbets and not grazen.
there was the pilot Heinrich Bassler
werknummer 5136
I/stukageschwader 2
shot douwn by pilot off Mike Stephens
hurricane L1610 green section
63wing 3 sqadron MK 1
sunday 12 th may 1940
the bordfunker of basler survived the crash and died a few years ago i was told.
kind reg
phil mertens

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hi,
Can somebody help me with the Luftwaffe losses on May 10 ,1940 in the region of St-Trond. The I./StG2 attacked on that day the airfield of St-Trond.
Thanks,
WB

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Dear Alexander, Phil, Peter and others,
I just registered at 12 o'clock high and came across your attempt to locate and identify Ju87 crashes during the campaign in Belgium, May 1940.
However very late (regarding the timespan of your discussion), I would like to give you following information, which could be of interest for you.
May 10th, a Ju87 of StG2 crashed near Vroenhoven, about one mile east of the Albert Canal. It was a high speed impact, both crewmembers were killed: Fw. Werner Herden (pilot) and Gefr. Helmuth Fischer (gunner). They were originally burried at the crashsite. I had pictures of the wooden crosses with their names painted on it, and one of the crashcrater with parts of the tail and swastika visible. Eyewitnesses told me about a mid-air-collision with a Ju52. I was not able to find any conformation for this, but that day, both types were active in the area.
I am new on this forum, and not experienced in sending messages at all. This is my third attempt, and I hope this one will arrive.
Kind regards
Peter Luijten / Tilburg, Netherlands

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hi Peter and Alexander,

This topic has been discussed before on this forum. Based on all the inputs my current matching is as follows, and indeed links Hahn to Werk as suggested by Alexander:

1./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Returned severely damaged by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Tirlemont 3.30 p.m. BF Uffz Herbert Schneider killed, pilot unhurt. Aircraft damage state not recorded.

2./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Tirlemont and crashed near St Trond 3.30 p.m. FF Uffz Heinz Lange and BF Obergefr Albrecht Fischer killed. Aircraft a write-off.
Heinz Johann Lange was initially burried at Brustem.

2./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Tirlemont and crashed at Attenhoven 3.30 p.m. BF Uffz Ernst Chuchra killed. FF Lt Siegfried Dryander captured unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.
2./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Tirlemont 3.30 p.m. FF Uffz Heinz Werk and BF Uffz Richard Hahn killed. Aircraft a write-off.
From 12 OCH discussion: Werk (pilot) & BF Uffz Richard Hahn (gunner) were from same crew; first burried Eben Emael, later Lommel. Chuchra was initially burried at Leuven. But now not clear to which crew Chuchra belonged. Most likely the previous one at Attenhoven.

2./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Returned damaged by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Tirlemont 3.30 p.m. Flieger Hilfsschütze Gefr Karl-Heinz Schmidt badly wounded, pilot unhurt. Aircraft repairable.

3./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 87 Squadron over Maastricht 3.30 p.m. BF Uffz Heinrich Diegmann killed. FF Uffz Fritz Fiebranz captured wounded. Aircraft a write-off.

Still some speculative elements in it, but overall a better match/explanation.


Cheers, Pieter

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello Pieter et.al.

Does anyone know if contemporary photos of any of these crash sites exist? In the EoE LW Loss DB I have only photos relating to the Lange crash, including a pile of wreckage and two photos of the crew field grave. I have nothing on any of the other crashes/damage incidents.

Who can help?

Regards,

Re: Ju 87 of Richard Hann I/StG2 KIA on May 11 1940
 

Hello,

Concerning the crash at Attenhoven: an eyewitness of the combat told me years ago that the 2 crew members were locally buried. Some locals violated the graves and the Germans then removed the human remains. The Germans used a horse and carriage to remove the bodies from Attenhoven to Landen station.

Concerning Heinz Werk & Richard Hahn: they were transfered from Eben-Emael to Lommel on the 10th of December 1947.

Larry, concerning the pictures: I only have 2 pictures of the grave of Lange and the wreckage. You already have a scan of them. I've seen 2 pictures or "probable pictures" of the Stuka of Attenhoven years ago but they dissappeared after the dead of my eyewitness.

Regards,
Alexander