EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Hello,

I'm trying to find out if Eberhard Winkel of 4./KG51 (DKiG winner) flew the Me262 and if he eventually shot down any allied bombers...

Where can I find this info?

Thanks a lot :-)

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

His Me 262 (9K+AL wn 111973) was shot down at Giebelstadt on 21st. Mar.1945 when it was attacked by a P47, and he crashed to his death on his 300th mission. In 1943 it was reported he landed his Ju 88 behind Russian lines to pick up a downed crew. See both the German and English edition of 'Kampfgeschwader 51 Edelweiss' and 'The Me 262 Combat Diary',

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Hello,

thanks for the info...
It looks like during his carreer he suffered bad facial wounds... probably while flying a Me262...
Will I find any info concerning the reason of these wounds in 'Kampfgeschwader 51 Edelweiss' and 'The Me 262 Combat Diary'???

Thanks a lot :-)

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

There is a photo of Winkel with a heavily bandaged face in the German edition of KG 51 taken at Rheine. It shows him with the M.O, and Maj.Unrau and states following being shot (down?) by enemy fire. Winkel is holding a model of a Me 262 so I assume the incident happened while he was flying one of these aircraft,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

On checking the Me 262 Combat Diary it shows that on 2nd.Nov.1944 Hpt. Winkel's aircraft was hit by A.A. near Grove and crashed with the pilot badly injured. He was flying me 262 A-2a 9K+CL w.n 170010. From the books mentioned it shows Winkel flew the Ju 88 in Russia, the Me 410 in the Steinbock raids over the UK and then the Me 262 all with KG 51

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Speaking of Eberhard Winkel and his facial wounds. Theres a private WW2 album for sale on ebay. Featuring pictures of 262 pilots during war. Theres couple pictures of Eberhard with bandages on his face. Check it out.


http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-GERMAN-PHOT...QQcmdZViewItem


http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...2/photo-87.jpg

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Following on from Zigster's post (thanks for that) can anyone i.d. the pilot in the first photo. on the E-Bay sale. The photo. appears to be notated ''Gefallen am 17-4-45'' . the loss lists in the KG 51 book shows Oblt. August Lampert killed this date at Hoyerwerda. can anyone confirm if he is the pilot in the photo,

Thanks

Brian Bines

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Where is Grove located ? Surely it can`t be the Fliegerhorst Grove which is located in Denmark ?

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Sorry location given is Grave, not Grove,

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Hello,

Does anybody know the birthdate of Eberhard Winkel? On the backisde of one photo it says:

"Haupt Winkel's birthday. Shot down by Flak near Venlo in Holland. Me 262 damaged. Z......(?) back." The word starting with Z might be a name.

If his birthday is known, I am sure one could find out which B-17 this was.

Can anybody identify the other pilots on the photos (except Unrau, Bartels and Winkel)?

Regards
Roger Gaemperle

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Hi Roger,

Eberhard Winkel was born on 2nd November 1920 at Stuttgart. So he had two birthdays that day: A real Geburtstag and a "Flieger-Geburtstag" , i.e. he survived this attack

All the best, Karl

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Hello Karl,

Thanks for the info! Do you have anything about the sortie on 2 November 1944? I couldn't find much in my books as the period November 1944 seems not to be well covered.

Best regards
Roger

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

My best guess is that this is B-17 42-31663 of the 379th BG, which came down on November 8, 1944 near Meerlo, which is quite close to Venlo airbase.
Best regards,
Ivo de Jong

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Hello Ivo,

Thank you for the info. Meanwhile, I think the text on the backside of a photo was not of the B-17 photo but of one where Eberhard Winkel is shown and that the Venlo is referred to him rather than the B-17. He was insured on a mission on 2 November 1944 while attacking the Grave airfield.

So, the B-17 might have been shot down at a completely different date (and perhaps even by KG51 pilots, although only few victories are known of KG51 pilots as far as I know)?

Regards
Roger Gaemperle

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me 262 pilot.
 

Here some information about November 2nd, 1944 from the side of 2nd TAF.

02-11-44 NA/PRO Air 29/2003. No.83 Group Control Centre, Erp.
In the air 3 Me 262’s were damaged by 274 Sqn.

02-11-44 NA/PRO Air 25-698. HQ No.83 Group, Eindhoven
Grave airfield, now happily evacuated, was bombed by a Me 262.

According to Shores & Thomas 2nd TAF Vol. 2, pag.335, these 3 Me 262 claims were made between 15.05 and 15.10 hrs in the Nijmegen area.
Did the Tempests of 274 sqn. intercept the planes which have bombed Grave airfield? Have to check.

Indeed there are only some claims of Me 262 pilots against Allied a/c.
05.12.44 Fw. Schmidt, 1./KG 51 B-17 £ 05 Ost/GP-35: 1.800 m. 13.08 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr. -

www.luftwaffe.cz/1945.html
16-3-1945 Lt. Wilhelm Batel I./KG 51 P-47

But I am sure you have seen these in the list of Tony Wood.

Jaap

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Hi all, was it ever determined which AA unit shot Hptm Winkel down on 2 Nov 44? I believe this was the first Flak loss for the Me262 and I am working on an AAA vs jets exhibit where this is critical information.

Thanks!

Jon

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Did anybody keep these Ebay photos on file? Would like to have a look at it.

Regards,

John Manrho

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

DOB 02.11.1920

Rüdiger