Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

I need to end a argument with a friend of mine.. :-)

Did the Me 109 have a cannon that shot trough the propshaft.

I recall to have read that there was a plan for this, but it was never used..

Could any of you please shed som light on this issue..?

Best regards..

Sandman

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

Nearly all had one. At least all F, G and K-models. You can find this information and more details in 99.9% of the sources on that plane.

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

As well some E models :)

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

I believe it was the 109C that was first intended to have the cannon, but it was not fitted in service. It was widely assumed at the time, by the British (and possibly the French?) that the 109E had an engine-mounted cannon but this was not true - the central intake was used for engine cooling.

I suspect it is this confusion over its use on the E that has misled your friend - there is no doubt at all about its appearance in later versions.

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

"Model Ar" No.375. page 44 bring drawing of the E-2 model with FF cannon. There is also testimony of one former Yugoslav Kingdom pilot who state that he shoot with three cannon in April war but I am very doubtful in his memory's in several reasons.

I am not informed much in this type of airplane and I sure that others will give more accurate reply.

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

Pilot, as stated, the plan was for the E-2 to have the cannon firing through the shaft, but development problems precluded this. It was not perfected until the introduction of the F-1 and F-2. As stated, all F, G and K machines had nose-mounted cannons. No E ever flew, operationally, with a nose mounted cannon.

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

Thanks for setteing the record straight...

Fantastic forum, this is.. :-)

Bets regards

Sandman

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

Here you are a diagram.
What model is it?? Puzzled??

Regards
Fran

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

I believe that the above cannon is Soviet and mounted in a Soviet fighter. Definitely not a 109 since the engine is upright.

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

Maybe it is a Spanish concept, with Hispano-Suisse engine and cannon?

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

Might be for the windscreen sure looks like a 109's.

A H-S 20mm simular mounted
http://arsenalvg33.free.fr/hs404.htm

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

Hello all,
It is a Me109J with Hispano engine and Hispano cannon.

Regards

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

does anyone have a link to a diagram of the daimler benz mounting? i have never been able to understand how a cannon can be mounted in an engine, fire through the hub, and be servicable, removable and belt fed.etc photos would be nice.

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

IMHO, your problem in understanding is that the gun is not "inside" the engine. The breech mounting was aft of the engine crankcase and cylinder with the barrel and blast tube run between the cylinder bank vee. In the late Bf 109s, I believe the breech of some weapons extended into the cockpit to the point that rudder movement was impeded. The engine has a reduction gear which offsets the propeller centerline vertically from the crankshaft. The prop shaft is hollow and sealed so the gun is isolated from the engine internals, fluids, etc. If you look closely at the H-S drawings, I believe you can make out these features. Of course the DB engines were inverted vees, but the concepts are similar.

Best regards,

Artie Bob

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

Sorry for the large images.

The red line is the axis of the cannon tube.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-.../db601na-1.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...DB601_1a-1.jpg

Cannon mount in a Bf109F
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...t_bf_109_f.gif

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

Artie Bob is correct. It is difficult to think of the barrel of the weapon passing through the engine until you realize that the reduction gear that most if not all aircraft had then caused the axis of the propeller shaft to be offset enoungh from the crankshaft axis that the barrel axis passed between the V created by the two banks of six cylinders each. It's actually very simple and more fighters would have done it if the actual mechanism of the weapon typically hadn't been so long, causing it to intrude into the controls in the cockpit. The 30mm MK 108 cannon used in later Bf109s and TA 152H-1 had a shorter receiver (mechanism) and barrel made possible by a shorter cartridge than usual for this caliber weapon. That's why the ballistics and accuracy were modest (lower velocity and therefore more drop over a given distance) compared to a normal 30mm cannon.

Paul

Re: Me 109 and cannon trough prop-shaft
 

It is not hard to understand as the cannon would interfer with the rotating crankshaft and the con rods.