PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Hi all!

Reading new book, I found two very interesting photoes:
http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/files/Ber...4b-white-7.jpg
http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/files/Ber...4b-white-7.jpg

But - some strange thing are there:
1. Markings - II.(Schl.)/LG 2 had black triangle with Personnal letter as marking of aircraft. Bf109E-4/B on photoes have number "7".
2. Markings - no bar after BalkenCross means this aircraft is from I Gruppe, not from II (as II./LG 2).
3. Camouflage scheme is very different from all others known Bf109E's from II./LG 2.

After it, I compared coloured profile of this aircraft with another, showing Bf109E-4/B of 3./Erpr.Gr.210, pilot - Oblt. Otto Hintze.

They looks very simular.

http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/files/Ber...---compare.jpg

1. Both II./LG 2 and 3./Erpr.Gr.210 used the same airfield - Calais-Marck.
2. Erpr.Gr.210 was I Gruppe, and marks of that aircraft is counts better to Erpr.Gr.210 than with II./LG 2.
3. Photoe is quite poor quality, and colour of number "7" could be"Yellow" (to 3 Staffle), not "white" (as it shown on coloured profile).
4. As it shown on coloured profiles, camouflage schemes of both "Emils" are very simular.

So, my question is - to what unit this Bf109E-4/B own - II.(Schl.)/LG 2 or 3./Erpr.Gr.210?

Best wishes,
Evgeniy Velichko.

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Hi,

they are probably from the II/JG54.

Regards

Robert

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Yes, Robert - I know that II./JG 54 had simular camouflage... THX

But:

1. Why no "bar" of II Gruppe on that Emil?
2. Does II./JG 54 based in Calais-Marck?

Regards,
Evgeniy.

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Hi,

1. The II/JG54 didn`t use second groupe bar in 1940
2. And who said that this is Calais-Marck?

Beside this:

II(Sch)/LG2 used letter and triangle
the planes of the I(J)/LG2 had a slightly different camouflage and mostly sported staffel emblems

Robert

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Didnt knew it. THX.
Hmm... Signature of each photoe say it. Let us ask this question to author of the book :) Heinz J. Nowarra, "Messerschmitt Bf109 1936-1945" :)
.....

Lets hope, may be John Vasco will clear it?

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Eugene,

Robert is correct, these are almost certainly photos of "White 7" of 4./JG54 taken about Sept/Oct. 1940. II./JG54, recently redesignated from I./JG76, didn't carry a II Gr bar during the Battle of Britain. Dr. Jochen Prien also has published one of these photos (Page 306 in his JFV Vol 4/II) with this identification. Nowarra is simply incorect in his captioning of these photos, which have long been in print. These were probably take at Campagne-lés-Guines, France.

Regards,

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

THX for answer.

P.S. Was 4./JG 54 a JaBo Staffel?

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Hi,these photographs were NOT taken at Campagne-les Guines,this airfieild had no fixed buildings nor a hard surface,it was left around mid-November 1940 due to waterlogging.

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Eugen,

Here's an example of 3./210's camouflage during the Battle of Britain. Lt. Horst Marx in front of his 'Yellow 3'. Completely different to the camouflage in the other photos.

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/839/boe1aoe6.jpg

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Hi John!

THX for this photoe. Its the first 3./Erpr.Gr210 photoe I've seen.

But what do You mean "other photoes"?

Both aircrafts ("Yellow3" of 3./Erpr.Gr.210 and that misterious "White/Yellow 7") have vertical lines as mottle. Probably RLM70, over RLM76 fuselage sides. Also, its very simular to II./JG 54 but different to all other camouflages of all other JG's.

P.S. John - check Your mail, I've sent some photoes of Wespengeschwader that I recently found.

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Eugen,

By 'other photos' I mean the two posted at the start of this thread. The camouflage on the 109s in those photos shows a style of 'cross-hatching' camouflage, which cannot be seen in any 109 photos I have of 3./210 Bf 109s.

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Gents, those Me 109s do not have yellow recognition markings, so would not fit into September-November 1940 time frame, would they?

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Hi

I think you all on the "Holzweg". I mean this and some other pictures from "Fliegen und Siegen" show planes from the 1.Staffel I./JG 54 on the Deutsche Bucht in Jever in the End 1940. After the heavy losses in the time on the Channel became the I./JG 54 some "new" planes from other JG´s, so you can find different camouflages. The 1.Staffel flew some bomb practice in Oktober/November 1940 in Jever. But this is my opinion.

Christian

Re: PLS help to indeficate - Bf109E-4/B from II./LG 2 or Erpr.Gr210?
 

Ahhh... Ok. I understand.

So, this Bf109 is NOT from 3./Erpr.Gr. 210? Shame on me :)