looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Hi..

I*m in the prosess of building av replica of Henrich Baer`s Fw-190 "rote 13".. (1:5 scale flying rc model, with every rivet\panels\hatches antennas, full scaled out cockpit AND a seven cylinder radial engine :-)

After som time of searching the net, I*m a little confused.. :-)
Werk.nr on my subject is 431007

I think that its an A8, but on several places I read that it was a A7.. What is correct..?

I have allso seen that he flew a FW-190 "Rote 23", during his time at JG-1. Is this correct..?

Does any of you know of a good source of info on both the man, and the planes that he flew.. I think I have read about all that is available online, so any pointers to books would be great help.

If the Rote 13 was, as I beleve, an A8. Could any confirm that it had its outer guns removed, to encrease roll rate..?

Finally, I have read that JG-1 Oseau did only have the JG-1 emblem on the port side of the cowl, but EVERY model that I have seen of Rote 13, it has the emblem on both sides. I have allso read that JG-1, allso only had it on the port side.. Would it not be viable that the Rote 13 allso only had the emblem on port side..?

Sorry for all the questions, but this RC model is to become of extrem scale, so its importent for me to get every detail as accurate as possible...

Best regards

Sandman

Looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Hello Sandman

Fw 190 "Red 13" (W.Nr. 431 007) with which he claimed his 201st and 202nd victories on 29 April 1944 was definitely an A-7 model as the werknummer block is that of an A-7. His "Red 23" with which he claimed his 200th victory on 22 April 1944 was also an A-7. I have always seen both these fighters as lightened without the outer MG 151/20 cannons. Unfortunately, I have only seen the port sides of these aircraft and thus have no idea if the JG 1 emblem was carried on the starboard side as well. Both these fighters were profiled by Claes Sundin in his books and he is a very well respected artist. I hope this helps and good luck with your model.

Horrido!

Leo

Focke Wulfs Fw 190 of Maj. Heinz Bär.
 

Hello,

I confirm – both “red 13” W.Nr. 431007 and “red 23” were Focke Wulfs Fw 190 A-7, they were both armed with 2 cannons in their wings only. “Red 23” was Bär’s reserve machine.

On both planes there were red horizontal bars – markings of 2nd gruppe, painted on red Reichsverteidigung belts. Also on both; black caps with white spirals, lower parts of the engines yellow and badges of JG 1 painted on engine's covers.

Difference – on “red 13” white rudder with indication of 200 victories while on “red 23” rudder was in normal camouflage colour without any markings.

Regards

Nef

PS. As I know, JG 1 was named “Oesau” after Gulle’s death on 11 May 1944, so in the late April 1944 it still shouldn’t have any name.

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Just one small thing, this person's name was Heinz Bär, not Heinrich Bär -- at least to the best of my knowledge. I'm assuming we're both speaking of the 220 victory ace, who ended his wartime career by popping 16 Allied a/c with the Me 262.

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

I confer with George on the Name, I also remember reading that Red 23, An A-7 may have been the machine flown by his Wingman Leo Schumacher and was flown on these occasions as it was ready to go when his personal machine Red 13 was not. His 200th was scored chaseing a low flying B-24, probably already wounded that was seen overhead while standing with other pilots on the airfield after returning from a prior mission.
After a short chase he brought it down without much trouble due to the state it was in, perhaps wounded crew aboard? Now I have to dig out my research on him to see?
This is from memory, and may be incorrect?
Kevin
My Favorite Pilot I say, And look foward to you sharing your finished project with us here Sandman....

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

The memory is working...Mombeeks JG1 book Shows Red 23 on page 228 as being Schumacher's normal mount! and the aircraft is stated as an A-7. It took Bär 27 min total time to take off, shoot down and land for this victory with Four bailing out of the Doomed B-24. Starboard side shows no JG1 emblem on the engine cowling in the photo in the book. Man what a beauty this bird was!!!!!
Kevin

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Thanks averyone...!!

Confirming that both Rote 13 and 23 was an A7 is very importent, there is
not very murch that seperates them visuable. Buts its nice to have the small details accurat :-)

One thing, his name.. from my reading online about the man, I pretty shure that is first name is Heinrich.. Heinz I beleve is a often used as short for Heinrich.. It would be nice to have this absolutely confirmed..

Has there beene written any bio on this man..?

Thanks again for helping me out with this project. I will post pictures when its ready.. As of today, I have the airframe complete ready for paint and detailing..

Best regards..

Sandman

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

"Heinz" is the official German shortform for "Heinrich".

Some sources quote his full christian name even as Oskar-Heinrich Bär, born 25.03.1913 in Sommerfeld (near Leipzig)

Regards

Roland

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Hello Sandman

You must wait or ask to Jan Bobek "THE" specialist of Heinz Baer we wait his biography about this pilot.

Thank

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

http://www.christian-schmidt-fachbuc...cb36a065a1d0a5

Regards

Roland

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Thanks Roland ..

This link just cost me a fortune :-)

Regards..

Sandman

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

You are right, of course. It serves me right for using Obermaier of "Die Ritterkreuztraeger ..." and Williamson's "Aces of the Reich" as my sources.

The 2 main visual differences between the A-7 and A-8 are the mid-wing pitot tube of the A-7 and wingtip unit of the A-8; and the ETC moved forward for the A-8. There are also changes to access panels and fueling panels because of the extra fuselage tank of the A-8. All A-8s, to the best of my knowledge, carried the Morane antenna of the FuG 16ZY radio. But, some Fw 190s carried the Y antenna from the A-4 onwards, so check the individual a/c you're modelling.

And, yes, Roland, I have that book on Heinz Baer on order, and am wondering why no biography on him wasn't done a long time ago.

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

..it has George..but its not worth the paper its printed on......the link is a reprint of material Kurowski already published in a book entitled 'Luftwaffe Aces' - recently reprinted in cheap paperback form by Stackpole

pure "novelisation" - and thats being kind..

German mag 'Jet & Prop' issue 2/91 features Peter Rodeike's article on Baer's 'Red 13' and other machines flown by the pilot with an article on how to model Red 13 in the following issue..

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Hi everyone,

all wartime documents including Bär´s personal fille kept from 1934 use name "Heinz", not "Heinrich".

I am afraid that "Heinrich" with relation to Bär is nothing more than repeated myth.

I am looking forward to Kurowski book. Hope to find there some interesting info missing in my files.

regards

Jan

PS correcting Roland´s typo: Bär was born in May, not in March.

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

..you are joking ....I hope...

repeat - Kurowski already published his material on Baer ....also appeared in print in the 'Landser' booklets/comics under the psuedo Altmann....

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Total confusion :-)

We are here talking about one of the greatest fighter pilots in history, and we dont know his first name..?!?

Come on, someone has to sit on the correct info..

What was his full name please...?

BIG thanks to everyone so far, you have all helped me bigtime in getting
the info I needed for my project...

Best reagards

Sandman

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

It is not that problem, I think, Sandman...

Bär surely wanted to be called "Heinz" and was called so among friends and the Luftwaffe accounts followed that wish.

But I´m also sure official documents list his complete name which would have been "Heinrich" like "Fritz" standing for "Friedrich".

Concerning the mysterious "Oskar":
We Germans have a 2nd christian name listed behind the name we´re called after. It is official and listed in the civil registry offices but barely used in public and it´s mostly the name of one´s godfather.

So it should be plausible that Bär from birth was listed as Heinrich Oskar Bär after his godfather "Oskar" but all the world called him Heinz Bär.

Only a look into the rolls of his hometown could solve this mystery.

My grandfather e.g. was listed as "Otto" and everybody called him "Fritz" -no joke...

Btw, "March" instead of "May" was no typo by me, the source said so and I wanted to point out the differences...

Concerning Bär's biography I say Thanks fo your judgement because it proves my point that at a price of 9.95 € you have to lower one's sights...

Regards

Roland

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Thanks Roland..

Until others have proven us wrong, we conclude that the man`s name
was Heinrich Oskar Bär.. :-)

Kind of strange that it hasn`t been done a indepth bio on the man, from the little info I have been able to find online, its seams like an interesting man, beside the fact that he was very good at his work ;-)

Really looking forward to Jan Bobek work to be published..

Thanks again...

Sandman

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Sandman,

I think I will start some kind of poll on my website: "guess what was Bär´s correct name"

:)

with friendly regards

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

He-he, come on Jan.! Set us all straight, PLEASE...

How far away are you from publishing your work?? I*m really looking forward to some insight on the man that flew my modeling subject..

Best regards..

Sandman

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Bad news for me Falke Eins.

I have both Landser issues. There are just several valuable parts of text. Otherwise nothing interesting. I really hoped that Kurowski will publish something new, although I had doubts based on his other books.

Guys, since 1934 Bär is stated in unit documents as well as in his personal file as "Heinz Bär". Let me explain the Oskar mystery in my book (anyway it was a minor issue).

I did not work on manuscript checking for longer time due to some family matter and my main occupation. Hope to get back to it during summer.

Horrido

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Hey Roland
Do you own "Oberstleutnant Heinz Bär" book?
For me it's very hard to read German (I forgot even the basics I learned as a kid) & I am not sure how many "new" photos there are in the book of his mounts not seen elsewhere?

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Unfortunetely not, Milos. Somehow I have no good reviews of this book in memory and due to the low price I doubt there are any new photographs in it.

Regards
RolandF

Re: looking for info on Heinrich Baer and his FW-190
 

Hello
Sometimes some cheap books surprise us - don't they? :)
On the other hand - with lag of almost 10 years of not buying majority of books I am spending money on the major issues at the moment... smaller books are usually available for longer time (except one MMP 109 book I wanted badly)
Best,
M