Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Hello,

Working on another new photo of a Ju88A, probably down in Holland in 1940 and burned out to just behind the wing roots. This aircraft carried the code 4D+C? Can't read the last letter. Anybody got any info on the ID of this one, including when and where happened?

Thanx.

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Hi Larry,

Not easy to identify the KG30 Ju88's, since 11 were shot down over Holland in the 4 days of fighting, and of most of these the code is not certain.

But this one is almost certainly the 4D+CB of Stab I./KG30 that came down East of Arnhem on May 10 early morning. The more detailed crash location is between Rozendaal and Velp, just NE. of Arnhem, but the majority of the crew (Fw Hartmann, Gefr Gieseler and Fw Soltau) jumped over Ede, West of Arnhem, and were made prisoner of war. Only Uffz Lassen, probably the pilot, baled out too low and was killed.

Kind regards, Pieter

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Pieter,

I'm going to be coding several KG30 aircraft photos from crashes in Holland during May, 1940. Do you have codes or details on any of the other ten?

Thanx,

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

I have all the NVMs for this unit for this period and as you would expect, not a Stkz amongst them

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Thanx for the comments, both on and off-board. It appears that Pieter has specifically identified my photo, and indicated that there were eleven KG30 Ju88s down in Holland during between 10.5 and 14.5.40. Rob van den Nieuwendijk has kindly sent me this summary of nine of those losses. We now have aircraft codes for two of these. Can anyone provide more codes and the identity of the other two losses? (Pieter??). Also what photos are known of any of these losses? At least three more of these appear to have come down relatively intact, which should allow their aircraft codes to be documented from likely photos. I think that I might have a series of photos of Item #9. I'll have to check on this one.

1) 10 May 40 Ju88A-2 of Stab I./KG 30 at Ede - crashlanded - hit by Dutch Flak in right engine; of crew 3 POW and one died of wounds.(This is the one that Pieter H. has apparently provided info about my photo: 4D+CL (see above).
2) 10 May 40 Ju88A-2? of 7./KG 30 near Nijmegen - hit by Dutch Flak - exploded whilst hitting the ground - crew 4 KIA
3) 10 May 40 Ju88A-2 of 3./KG 30 near Ouderijn/Utrecht 4D+DL - hit by Flak over Waalhaven - 100% damage - crew 3 KIA, 1 POW
4) 10 May 40 Ju88A-2 of 1./KG 30 near Prinsenbeek - 100% damage - shot down by Dutch fighter G-1A (Buwalda/Wagner) - crew 3 KIA, 1 WIA
5) 10 May 40 Ju88 of 3./KG 30 East of Rotterdam - shot down by Dutch G-1 of 3th JaVa - crew: 2 POW, 2 KIA ????
6) 10 May 40 Ju88A of KG 30 near Soesterberg - shot down by Dutch D-21 (Droste) - crew 4 POW
7) 10 May 40 Ju88A-1 of 5./KG 30 near Ypenburg/Delft - 3 POW, 1 KIA
8) 12 May 40 Ju88A-1 of 5./KG 30 near IJmuiden - crew 1 POW, 3 KIA
9) 13 May 40 Ju88A-1 of 8./KG 30 1 km East of Oudeschild/Texel in Waddenzee - 4 POW - hit by Flak of Den Helder.

Regards,

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Hello,

Have now had time to do a search of my data base for photos of KG30 aircraft down in Holland during the May Campaign, and have turned up 4D+CD of Stab III./KG30, which is force-landed intact on the cobble breakwater on the North Sea beach near Renesse, Zeeland Province, Holland, on 11.5.40. This would provide the identity of 10 or the 11 aircraft referred to by Pieter H., and gives us codes for three of them. Now we need the last one, and any other codes and W.Nr. for these 11 aircraft.

We're making progress,

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Hello,

Regarding my comments about possibly having photos of Ju88 Item #9, these turn out to be photos of an aircraft from 3.(F)/122 down on 11 May in the Waddenzee near Terschelling, not a loss from KG30.

Regards,

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Hello Larry,

Just a quick update from AI1 (k) reports.

Nr 88/1940 states on 10 May 40 Ju 88 of 9./KG 30 NE of Rotterdam. 4 POW. Code: 4D+FT.

Nr 98/1940 states on 13 May 40 Ju 88 of KG 30 North of Zuiderzee. 4 POW. Alas no code stated.

Best wishes
Rob

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Hi all,

Regarding 10 may ´losses´ specifically, these may not all have been those downed in Holland but these are what I have come across from 6.Abt. losses...

.... Ju 88 1./KG 30 10.05.1940 (70v12.05.40)
(amd w/16.10.40: I/KG 30 one dead, one injured)

.... Ju 88 1./KG 30 10.05.1940 (71v12.05.40)
(amd rr/30.11.40: I/KG 30 Oblt. Von Wartenberg and one crew killed)

.... ..... I/KG 30 10.05.1940 (73v12.05.40) (amd ss/30.11.40: one crew killed)

... 6crew? II/KG 30 10.05.1940 (74v12.05.40)
(amd x/16.10.40: one injured)

.... ...... II/KG 30 10.05.1940 (64v14.05.40)
(amd vv/30.11.40: Oblt. Schneider returned from captivity, three crew killed)

.... ...... II/KG 30 10.05.1940 (65v14.05.40)
(amd uu/30.11.40: one crew returned)

.... Ju 88 1./KG 30 ......1940 (72v12.05.40)

.... Ju 88 3./KG 30 ......1940 (75v12.05.40)

.... Ju 88 III/KG 30 ......1940 (94v12.05.40)

this makes for possibly NINE losses/incidents for 10 May but some might be outside Holland or detailing losses on returning to base. Hope someone can tie these up for me as my access to KG 30 NVMs records is none.

cheers
ed

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Hello again Larry,

Just a minor remark:
#8 in your list was shot down by Dutch ack-ack at IJmuiden, but actually crashed against the railway siding at Hazerswoude/Koudekerk, some 30 km S of IJmuiden.

Best regards,
Hans Nauta

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Uffz F.Lassen was the 'Bordschütze' of the crew.

Jaap

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Let me try to give my overview of the KG30 a/c that were lost over Holland.
May 10

1. Stab I./KG30 4D+CB, Roozendaal/Velp (N. Arnhem), crew Fw Hartmann 3 PoW, 1 KIA
2. 1./KG30 4D+IT, Prinsenbeek, Crew Oblt von Wartenberg 3 KIA, 1 PoW [Note that as it looks due to some shuffeling around of a/c within KG30 just before May 10, the aircraft codes often did not match the crew unit]
3. 1./KG30 4D+FT, Zevenhuizen after being hit over Rotterdam, Crew Oblt Wülknitz PoW
4. I./KG30 Schiphol. [This is the one asked by Larry in a separate post. It is claimed to be shot down by a D-21. Unit code seems like 4D+IH or LH or IK or LK. But date etc not 100% certain to me, especially since no mentioning of crew despite landing at Schiphol. Could also be accident at Schiphol after I./KG30 transfered there by the end of May.]
5. 3./KG30 Oudenrijn due to AA Waalhaven, Crew Oblt Magnussen 3 killed, one PoW. Code not 100% certain but Brongers list and Weiss give 4D+CD
6. 3./KG30 Crash landing at Münster after mission to Rotterdam. Crew Uffz Hubik all WIA
7. 3./KG30 Crash at Rheine after being hit by AA Soesterberg.
8. 4./KG30 4D+AM crashed at Den Hoorn (S. Delft) shot down by D-21. Crew Oblt Beermann 3 PoW, 1 KIA
9. 5./KG30 Reportedly lost around Waalhaven. No details, and one option is confusion with the previous one, which is sometimes listed as 5./
10. 7./KG30 4D+KR, Exploded and crashed in the river Waal at Nijmegen after being hit by AA, Crew Lt Bergemann all KIA

May 12

1. 5./KG30 Hazerswoude, shot down by Defiants No. 264 Sqn and Spitfires No. 66 Sqn. Crew Oblt Schneider 3 KIA, 1 PoW
2. 5./KG30 Crashed into the sea at Scheveningen after being hit by AA, no crew details [I'm not 100% convinced of this one; might also be late report of the May 10 a/c]

May 14

1. 2./KG30 Zeeland, around Vlissingen. Crew Uffz Wengert 3 KIA, 1 WIA [This one is often listed as May 15, but I think this is a late report and the 14th is correct]

May 18

1. III./KG30 Haamstede, shot down by Spitfires No. 65 Sqn. [This is almost certainly the one mentioned in one of the above posts as being landed at Renesse. Is there photo evidence that this is the 4D+CD, and not the one at Oudenrijn as in my list?]

Still quite some white spots. And of these 14 a/c, only 4 aircraft codes are known, with one possibly. Further identification of any of the other 10 of course most welcome.

Kind regards, Pieter

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Pieter,

Your entry for 18 May 40 is not supported by the evidence. Yes, there is photo evidence (2) of this crash-landing with the codes clearly showing 4D+CD. The aircraft is fully intact and the props were turning when the plane landed on the beach. This has been identified by Wim de Meester, the Dutch expert on the airwar over Zeeland, as the aircraft of Oblt. Werner Wagner, who, along with his crew, became POWs after force landing on the basalt cobble breakwater at Renesse, Zeeland, Holland, on May 11, 1940. Reference the EOE Archive data base MCN9145, 9146. The photo of the other 4D+C?, which you ID as 4D+CB of Stab I./KG30, is MCN8300, and is clearly a different aircraft, burned out to just behind the wing roots and in a farm field, not on a beach.

Regards,

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Hello,

As a part of this discussion, can anyone cite published sources, or provide copies of photos of any other KG30 Ju88s that came down in Holland between 10.5 and 15.5.40? Among other things, I'm trying to build a definitive photo data base for this period of losses in Holland.

Thanx,

Re: Need ID of Ju88A of KG30 burned out in Holland 1940
 

Hello,

Regarding the information that I recently posted about 4D+CD being shot down at Renesse, Zeeland, Holland, on May 11, 1940, Wim de Meester now informs me that that happened on May 17th, not the 11th as my post says. My mistake.

Regards,