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Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi!
On 29.07.1944 a Hawker Typhoon operated by the Versuchverband O.K.L. crashed. In my loss list the serial number is reported as 054? where the ? denotes a number I have problems reading. I am sure there are people on this board that have knowledge of this aircraft and its original id? Regards, Andreas B |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hello Andreas,
Don't know if it is the same aircraft but time is close. T9+GK the well known captured Typhoon was according to Mike Murphy on the LEMB website destroyed at Meckelfeld near Harburg on the 23rd July 1944 it's pilot being killed. Alex |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Guys
T9+GK was ex TJ956 lost by the British 24.3.1943 It has been reported in Luftwaffe docs as WNr 0956 Doesn't really seems to fit Andreas description, does it? I was however only aware of one Tiffie operated by the Luftwaffe.... Cheers Stig |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
There were many more Taifuns, however!
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Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi.
It seems that someone must have been mixing these two events up and getting the details wrong also... could of course be the unit itself... The losses as reported by Gen.Qu.6.Abt are: http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=117596 and http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=110280 Thus... in the first incident it seems that a hitherto unknown Typhoon with a serial number of (probably) 0549 was totally destroyed and its pilot killed. Then, a bit later, the 0956 was damaged 50% (but probably scrapped, even though only damaged OVER 50% counts as a total loss). The point is nonetheless that the Typhoon killing Herbert Gold could probably not be flying a month or so later. So, I guess a new nut to crack. Regards, Andreas B |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi,
TJ956 ? There was EJ956 an MM956 and an MN956, but no TJ956. Alex Alex |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi,
EJ956/SA-I was lost on 24/03/1943. F/Sgt Mawson from 486 Sqn was captured. Rgds. |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi,
And then there was JP549, MM549 or PD549 ? Alex |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Alex
Was probably very tired. EJ956 was the Tiffie in question quoted by me Cheers Stig |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi.
I am not very knowledgable with regards to allied aircraft seriel numbers, but I do believe that we are looking for a Hawker Typhoon with serial: ??54? The first two letters and the last one a numeral which could be 9, but not necessarily There must be some Typhoon nutters out there that should be able to crack this one? Regards, Andreas B |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi Andreas and Alex,
Skip JP549 from the list, this Tiffy crashed a few miles from here and was completely destroyed. Regards, Hans Nauta |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Evening all...
I too thought that on EJ956 was the only Typhoon used by the Luftwaffe. "On Special Missions" by Smith, Creek & Petrick confirms it's loss during an experimental flight from from Reinsehien on 28th July 1944 with pilot Fw.Herbert Gold losing his life. I have no idea if the listing below will be of any use, but I thought I'd reproduce it anyway. Taken from "British Military Aircraft Serials, 1911-71" by Bruce Robertson [PSL, 1979] it may narrow down the search for the serial of this possible second Luftwaffe Typhoon... EJ175 to EJ454 - Typhoon IB (cancelled order) EJ900 to EK543 - 400 Typhoon IB batches
batches
batches
batches
batches
If anybody as a serial number for a batch that I may have missed, perhaps they could post it in a reply and I'll look it up... Hope it helps in one way or another... Cheers Peter D Evans LEMB Administrator |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi Guys
Looking into relevant Typhoones ALSO means we have to assume that the Germans did not make an error and that at least the digits 54 are correct I have found the following relevant losses JP545 shot down by fighters off Gravelines 31.7.43 JP549 crashed 1 mile north Bergen airfield 16.8.43(any photo of the crash Hans, or why are you so certain it was totally destroyed?) JP547 glycol leak and forcelanded near Montreuil 5.10.43 (most likely candidate) JP542 shot down by fighters, Cherbourg 24.10.43 JP548 engine failure and force landed south east Marigny 14.2.44(second most likely candidate) MN544 shot down by flak Cap d'Antifer 11.5.44 Cheers Stig MN548 shot down Caen 7.7.44 (now we are getting too close to the crashdate and this one very unlikely) |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
I've also just found this possible candidate listed on the old Beuteflugzeuge website I've got archived:
JP799 - Typhoon IB - coded FM-F of 257Sq? It was shot down on 29th Jan.1944 I'll ask Patrick to confirm a source for this entry... It's also worth finding out if the unpublished Luftwaffe Typhoon images that appeared on Ebay a few years ago had any serial visable. I'll make contact with the owner and see if he can tell us more... Cheers Peter D Evans LEMB Administrator |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hello Stig,
Well, I've been on the crash place (more than 20 years ago by now) of JP549 and we've only found desintegrated parts. Apart from field research I've also a Dutch and German local report about the crash, stating that the aircraft was completely burned. Also, the pilot, P/O D. J. Webster was initially buried as unknown F/O, indicating a severe crash of the Typhoon. Best regards, Hans Nauta |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi
think this may have been covered on the old LEMB before the board crash. 0549 was possibly a typing error for JP548, ( in captured terms 0548 ) JP548 174Sq 14 feb 44 F/O B.F.Proddow, crashed Marigny. JP548 is captioned also as T9+GK, in some articles. One other personal theory is a typhoon could have rebuilt from bits and '549 ' donated the biggest bit or the part with a data tag. ( like a modern day rebuild...) There is a famous photo of a bombed hangar of typhoons being rebuilt at chateaufort/( or was it chateaudun? i can't remeber which ) airfield, Nr Paris. It was posted on the old LEMB, also photos exist of B-17's being rebuilt. Cheers Jerry |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
This is what Christopher Shores/Chris Thomas says in "The Typhoon and Tempest Story""
"The Typhoon EJ956, SA-F, was repaired by the Germans and test flown at Rechlin,later serving with Versuchsverband/Obdl...The unit also used JP548 which had force landed on the Cherbourg peninsula on February 14,1944 and a third,as yet unidentified Typhoon. EJ956 was written off for the second and last time when it turned over in a force landing near Meckelnfeld on 10 August 1944,the pilot was unhurt.JP548 crashed at Reinsehlen on 29 July 1944 killing the pilot,Fw. Gold. A captured Tempest was tested at Rechlin. " |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
page 53 of Lend-Lease Aircraft in Russia Red Stars 4 by Carl-Frederik Geust states that Typhoon 1b EJ956 was on display at Rechlin on September 3rd 1943.
it does not state if it ever flew test flights for the Luftwaffe. |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Quote:
http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...?showtopic=308 This thread includes all three as yet unpublished photos of an unidentified Typhoon in Luftwaffe markings which Jan vd Heuvel has kindly allowed us to post. Jan has checked the original prints for me and no codes are visible... cheers Peter D Evans LEMB Administrator |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi.
Have updated accordingly: http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=117596 Regards, Andreas B |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Feldwebel Gold was killed flying Typhoon JP548 which had force-landed south-east of Marigny, west of St-Lo on the Cherbourg peninsula, on 14 February 1944; the pilot, Flg Off B.F.Proddow evaded capture.
Does this make me a 'nutter'? I hope not. My dad is bigger than yours. CT |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hello Chris,
This all makes me sad, as all of this IRC was ironed out on the LEMB site long before it crashed. There were many photos and colour profiles as well as text. A photo was shown and still is on the new LEMB of three German Officers ( they were all once named ) walking in front of a Cab Door Typhoon with the numbers of the serial shown. This was at the September 1943 Air Show so "SA-I" EJ956 of Mawson was a fit, being lost earlier in March 1943. It also seems that Fw Herbert Gold was killed on the 28th or 29th July 1944 while flying JP548, which force landed SE of Marigny on the 14th February 1944 and was a 174 Sdqn a/c coded "XP- " piloted by F/O. B.F. Proddow who was an evader. All the very best Alex |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi,
I knew that I had the info on paper somewhere. Photo of 3rd september 1943. Those in photo in front of a "Cab Door" Typhoon. Side code seen in photo "SA". Serial shown Could be an "E" followed by "J956". Were - Quote "The German Minister of Armaments, Albert Speer, in the company of other high-ranking Luftwaffe Officers at a display of captured aircraft held at Rechlin on 3 September 1943. 2nd from left is Oberst Petersen, hrad of the Rechlin experimental establishment. Note Typhoon in the background". This photo and others came from "Jet & Prop" of June 2000. Also I have , from Cyril De Decker and Jean-Louis Roba but now possibly dated as this was sent to me some time ago. Under the heading of "The Typhoons" - Quote -"Probably the first Typhoon in enemy hands was EJ956 "SA-D" of 486 Sqn". It goes on to say - "Mawson's Typhoon was flown for more than a year in the Luftwaffe, but on August 10th 1944 Typhoon WNr 956 had a motor failure and the pilot had to make a forced-landing, which resulted in a 50% damage of the plane. As for JP548 of 174 Sqn, On July 29th, 1944 Fw Herbert Gold was killed near Reinsehlen whilst flying Typhoon Wn. 549 of the same Versuchsverband. As Proddows serial differs only one digit from the one in which Gold was killed (and no other Typhoon-loss seems to fit- probably there is a clerical error in one of both lists)". - end of quote. Note at this time the a/c side code is given as "SA-D". These days it is given as "SA-I" When did the information on this change ? All for now Alex |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi,
Slightly O/t but this e bay CD of typhoon pilots notes has a photo of a captured typhoon on it, It seems familiar.. bottom of page left column four photos down. cheers Jerry http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...0%3D%26fvi%3D1 |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi, guys.
Just now looking at the list called 'Instandsetzung von Feindflugzeugen Stand: 15.3.1945'. There are a few Typhoons there for those interested: Lfd.Nr.3: Typhoon 'T o BK 429' supposedly shot down at Pfalzdorf b/Düsseldorf on 01.12.1944 Lfd.Nr.15: Typhoon '145427' shot down in Rheindahlen 23.12.1944 Lfd.Nr.32: Typhoon H '656' shot down at Boke, date not reported Lfd.Nr.38: Typhoon 'R 7771' shot down at Bohmter Heide 28.02.1945 Lfd.Nr.39: Typhoon 'SW 415' shot down at Bohmter Heide 28.02.1945 I doubt these were ever flown by the Luftwaffe, but they certainly tried to recover them Regards, Andreas B |
Re: Hawker Typhoon original id?
Hi Andreas...
I imagine that the examples listed would have been a good source of spares for the airworthy example(s) they already had... Quote:
Cheers Peter D Evans LEMB Administrator |
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