Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Gentlemen,

I'm enclosing a picture about a Hauptmann, who is wearing the RK and a hardly visible unit emblem badge. According to my identify, this picture was taken in late spring/early sumer, 1943 at Kharkov area and the officer is probably from a reconnaissance unit. Any tip about the person or the unit emblem?

Thanks in advance,

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

No one?:(

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Here is the picture again:

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Csaba,
Hello, I am not an EXPERT like some boys here, but COULD you focus on the symbol you want us to identify? I mean: there is a symbol on the cooling of what seems a BF 109 behind the men and he is wearing a badge of some kind of unit near his RK ( on the right ). IF we could see both of them more closely it would be great...
I already saw this picture on an early thread of yours, but did not have time to answer or to check out the symbols. I promiss you I will have a careful look now.
Yours,
Adriano

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Adriano, there is no Bf 109 behind him (or any other plane) I just cut his portrait from a group photo (around him are Hungarian officers and one German Oberleutnant) I can make a separate picture about the symbol, but it is not sharp and clear, because of the sunshine.
This unit symbol is totally unknown by me, unfortunately. It is maybe a cat or a fox.

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Jesus Christ! I had to change my glasses....The first time I saw this, it remembered me the symbol of JG 7, but the dates did not match. I do have some pictures sent by Martin Drewes with several Squadron´s badges. I will have a look and try to find a similar symbol.
Sorry..

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Here is the symbol in bigger size (not too sharp, I'm not able to do a better one):


Looks to me a small mammal with a long tail (cat, fox, squirrel?)

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Csaba,
This symbol remembers me that of JG 71 or JG 21 ( do not remember ) early before the war ( 1939 ). Perhaps this Hauptmann was an early member of that unit, a BF 109 B or C pilot early in the war.
I first tought of the black shadow behind the RK-trager and scanned those symbols to you.
I will post here later that of the cat of JG 71.
Yours
Adriano

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Csaba,
Me again..I had trouble sending you the pictures. Please, could you send me your e-mail?
Adriano

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

I guess I found out the symbol....send me your e-mail, ok?

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Thanks, Adriano, pm sent

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Csaba,
Your man CAN be from .8/ JG 51 ( almost certainly ).
There was a Uffz Heinrich Hoenisch from JG 53 that had a similar personal emblem ( see pg.65 of PRIEN´s vol.1 JG 53 ). However Honisch became a POW on 9 September 1940 after obtaining 6 victories ( so, no RK and no time matches ).
JG 71 had this symbol of the cat arching its back before the war and it seems to have been used as far as 1940 ( am not sure on that date ). Your man ( RK-trager ) should have flown with that Squadron...Had to cross-check .8/JG 51 RK-tragers to find out a man that was with the Squadron since its beginning...
I will send you the photos on your e-mail.
Hope that it will help...
Yours friend and sincerely as ever
Adriano

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Many thanks, Adriano. Here is a bigger part of the photo which shows him and the other Oberleutnant. Unfortunately, the RK Träger pilot wears only a German pilot badge and an EK I, nothing other (that's why I showed above only his face with the small badge, since he wears no other particularly interesting in his clothes)

I tought, that he is a recce pilot, since the fighter pilots wore their Frontflugspange generally, but the recce pilots are less frequently (and the Hungarians behind him are from a tactical recce unit)

It is also possible, that the pilot got this badge as a gift from a friend. It was not rare, that the Hungarians and Germans changed unit badges as a friendly gesture, and it happened among German pilots as well, I guess (I can show you photos, for example, in which Lipfert is wearing the Hungarian 'Ricsi' badge, but not at all the JG 52's one - but it is not a Hungarian badge for sure)

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

It is obvious possibly but talking about Charkow 1943 should be generally before mid August 1943...

regards,
Pawel

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Pawel,

I know it (:P) This photo was taken most probably in May or June (altough late April or July also possible) The pilot, who taken this snap, passed away 14 years ago, so impossibe to ask him anymore...

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Is the other pilot in the photo wearing a reconnaisance clasp?

Bryan

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Hello Csaba,
I am wondering why the RK man is not wearing the DK im Gold? Are you sure about the date being mid or early 1943? Could it have been taken at mid 1942?
Check this site with Recon RK-tragers. I tried to check the photos by clicking on the names. No one are 100% similar to the men on the photograph. The most similars were Hans Wolf, Reinecke, kroll, Felgenhauer and Kruger. Check it out yourself, ok?
http://www.luftwaffe39-45.historia.nom.br/ases/rk.htm
I still believe he is a fighter pilot, although the Oberleutnant seems to be wearing the Recon clasp and seems to be part of the crew!
Yours
Adriano

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Csaba,
Have you checked those JG 51 pilots: Georg Seelman / Heinrich Kraft and Adolf Borchers ( later with JG 52 )?
Very similar features...check the same site above and see their pictures with RK...It´s all I found!

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Adriano,

Thanks for the link, I'll try to check the portraits.

That particular pilot, who taken this photo was not on the eastern front in 1942. He spent few days in 1941 in Ukraine, but according to my knowledge, he did not take any photos at this time (but it is also possible, of course). Then, he was in Ukraine from April, 1943 till early 1944.
So, late summer, 1941 is also possible, or it was taken in 1943.
The RK Träger is not wearing everything is this picture for sure (his evident Frontflugspange, his possible Spiegelei, or something other clasps, decorations, which are also possible - since he is Hauptmann, he evidently served for a long period).

And of course, the Oberleutnant is wearing a Frontflugspange für Aufklärer in Gold (if I was not definite earlier)

Re: Unknown RK Träger Hptm and unit symbol Kharkov 1943
 

Adriano,

Many thanks for your efforts, really greatly appreciated by me, but I guess, at the moment, I am not able to do more. It is not the first time, when I'm not able to identify for sure an RK Träger pilot (as you know well, there were amazingly high number of excellent pilots in the Luftwaffe and a really high number of them received the RK...)

It is not so important to me, I was just curious (I must know everything:-) )