Ilyushin Il-4
 

These two photos of an Ilyushin Il-4 were taken in the summer of 1941 by my grandfather. The tail fin has the number '11' on it - can the unit be identified from this?

http://thumb9.webshots.com/s/thumb1/...9OEsoZO_th.jpg

http://thumb9.webshots.com/s/thumb1/...9lGERWZ_th.jpg

Thanks!
Karl

Il-4
 

It is usually not possible to identify an Il-4 on basis of the tactical code on the rudder. Better to know where the photo was shot - and when. This might easen the work identifying the unit considerably.

Rune

Thanks for the reply Rune.

The photos were taken in Heeresgruppe Mitte during Barbarossa. My grandfather's line of march with the Luftwaffe took him to the following places, so it seems likely the Il-4 was found at an airport/aerodrome along this route:

29-06-41:- Slusk
06-07-41:- Bobruisk on the Beresina
09-07-41 to 09-08-41:- Stary Bichow on the Dnepr
12-08-41 to end Aug.41:- Ponjatowka near Roslawl
02-09-41 to 03-10-41:- Schatalowka + Seshchinskaya
09-10-41:- Paumowa
15-10-41 to 20-10-41:- Juchnow
26-10-41 to 13-11-41:- Malojaroslawez on the Protwa

The photos were developed recently from a reel of negatives I found concealed in an old safe back home in Germany. I've put several up on the web at http://community.webshots.com/album/164616116rYdAvV

All the best,
Karl

IL-4 images
 

Similar photos can be found in Held's "The German Fighter Units Over Russia", pg 46. The caption there states the airfield is Bobruisk, it may be the same place.

Don

Thanks for the lead Don!

Soviet AF units in Bobrujsk
 

In early June 1941 the HQ of 13 BAD (Bomber Aviation Division) was located in Bobrujsk, with two of its subordinated regiments also co-located in Bobrujsk: SB-equipped 24 BAP and Su-2 equipped 97 BAP.
These units belonged to the Western Special Military District (ZOVO).

No other AF units are known to have been located in Bobrujsk. However, at the time the photos were shot this AF base was naturally used by other (retreating) units as well. All DB-3f bombers (later named Il-4) were used by the Long-Range Aviation (DA; which became the independent ADD on 5 March 1942) at this time. Thus the depicted DB-3f belongs to a regiment of DA, temporarily located at Bobrujsk - possibly belonging to 3 BAK (Bomber Aviation Corps).
Carl

Hi Carl,

Someone else on another forum identified the remains of a Tupolev SB-2 behind the DB-3f (Il-4) in one of the photos, which I guess would have belonged to the 24 BAP you mention.

Thanks for your post.

All the best,
Karl

I found a website which appears to list the plane in the photo:
http://www.luftwaffe-experten.co.uk/

In the section dealing with Beuteflugzeuge ( http://www.luftwaffe-experten.co.uk/ij.html ), an Ilyushin DB-3F with registration code '11' is given as captured at Bobruisk, ex 3 BAK.

There's also a picture and a drawing of it in a thread at the forum there (to which you've contributed Carl!):

http://p069.ezboard.com/fluftwaffeex...opicID=6.topic

Thanks for all your help guys!

Il-4 no 11
 

The drawing of DB-3f (later Il-4) "yellow 11" in the LEMB board apparently also refers to the "Bobrujsk-bomber" (which most probably was "black-11" - also depicted in this Board).

However, the caption of "yellow 11" is mistaken - it is hardly plausible that a naval aircraft would have landed at Bobrujsk! The navy air forces did also not possess DB-3f bombers at this time - this version was delivered to DA in the first place. The naval AF used the older DB-3 type, and got DB-3f in quantity only from 1942.

Carl

Hi Carl,

I had another look. The thread shows a black and a yellow '11' - however, the captions are different!

Black '11' reads: "These images and a colour drawing are from a brand new unpainted (silver) DB-3F captured at Bobruisk. It belonged to 3 BAK and carried “black 11” on the rudder."

Yellow '11': "An early IL-4, yellow 11 captured by the Germans in 1941. This aircraft carried a natural metal finish and had previously been operated by VVS KBF Mine Torpedo Aviation Regiment."

There is no mention of the yellow '11' being captured at Bobruisk.

Regards,
Karl

(The drawing of the black '11' seems pretty flawed though...)

DB-3F, NO. 11
 

That was a much photographed aircraft.

I have a couple of original photos of the same bird, taken by German soldiers. I have to check if there is anything written on the prints' verso.

Dénes

Hello Dénes,

Did you find anything? - any chance of posting a photo for comparison?

All the best,
Karl

3 BAK, 1 BAK and 13 BAD
 

Hi Carl and Karl

and others I have some aditional info about this DB-3F (Il-4 was since 1942)

In early June 1941 the HQ of 13 BAD (Bomber Aviation Division) was located in Bobrujsk, with two of its subordinated regiments also co-located in Bobrujsk: SB-equipped 24 BAP and Su-2 equipped 97 BAP.

The 13. BAD had in fact 6. bomber regiments: there were in Bobrujsk on 22 June 1942: 97., 27., 24. BAPs + you should also add: 25 SBAP, 121. BAP and 130. BAP. It was quite strong bomber air fist on Western Fronts.

These units belonged to the Western Special Military District (ZOVO).
On 19 VI 1941 ZOVO and others Military Distric were transfered into the Fronts (2-3 days before German attacks! oficial orderes had been given by Stalin + others nice guys).
on 21 VI 1941 gen G.Zukow get from the Stalin an order to take the command on the Western-South Front (field undegroud command post was located in Tarnopol - quite near Soviet-German border on Polish toritory ocupied by Sovites).

This photso coming most proably from Bobrujsk, if one remeber that Bobrusj was captured by German in July 1941 (first days) one also should remeber that in this time there were many hetic air movments. On 22 June 1941 there was in fact only 3. BAK on the Western Front which had DB-3 and DB-3F + was also independed special 212. OBAP created for special night and long range duties on DB-3F commanded by coll. soon marshal A. Golovanov (quite soon the unit was subordianted under 3. BAK, commanded by coll. Skripko). Soon after the war broken from the Leningrad were imiedietly relocated the next long range regiments comming from 1. BAK. They were send into the action on 26-28 June 1941 against german "tank and motorised units. The most blody shambles of DB-3, DB-3F was over Berezyna/Bobrujsk on 30 VI 1941. It was a slaughter of Reds bomber force.

So this specific DB-3F could come from one of the regiment of 3. BAK or maybe from even 1. BAK. It aslo could be form 212. OBAP which was then in the streng of 3. BAK.

The next photos (two) of this bomber were first published in Barbarossa Victims. Luftwaffe Kills in the East by Tomasz Kopański in2001 see p.124.
I have also put one photo of this (which I have from Tomek) of nice left side DB-3F "11" in my article "Red Blizkrieg in July 1941" printed in Militaria I Fakty in June 2004 (in: MiF 2/2004).

Reaards,
Mirek Wawrzyński
mirwaw@xl.wp.pl