I 61 - American?
 

Writing from Schatalowka on 28.9.41, my grandfather wrote that three Russian fighters attacked the airport. He describes them as "schwere russ. Ja[e]ger vom Typ I 61 (amerik. Baumuster)".

I get the impression after a quick search in webland, that the I 61 was the precursor to the MiG-1 and built by the Russians.

Does anyone know what plane my grandfather was thinking of? Was he incorrect by saying the I 61 was built by the Americans? Or is he thinking of a different plane?

If it helps, all three fighters were shot down, and my grandfather comments that a 2cm shell from one of the light Flak guns penetrated the engine of one plane through 4mm of armour. It was also carrying a bomb.

Many thanks.
Karl

Re: I 61 - American?
 

Hi Karl,

You are correct, I-61 is an alternate designation for the MiG-1.

I believe the Germans also incorrectly used the designation I-18 for the MiG-1 and MiG-3.

I've no idea what the American link could be as the MiG-1 was designed and built by the Mikoyan Gurevich design bureau, definately Russian (Soviet).

Andy Fletcher

Re: I 61 - American?
 

The I-16 was sometimes erroneously called Curtiss fighter, just like the SB was sometimes called Martin bomber, it could be that the new I-61 (MiG 1/3) was also attributed to a foreign firm?

Re: I 61 - American?
 

Thanks for the prompt replies!

Re: I 61 - American?
 

These aircraft probably were MiG-3s. The name of the place is Shatalovo in English transcription, although the Germans called it Schatalowka.

With which unit did your father serve?

Re: I 61 - American?
 

in his book "mein flugbuch " by gunther rall you can read:
numbers of victorys.

his 10th victory ( date 11.august 1941 O Kanew) MIG -3
his 26th victory ( date 23.october 1941 S Alexandrowka ) I-61
but probable most of the time they had not really a glue what they shot down. at least not in my opinion :confused: )


in the year 1940 the soviets have called the mig 1 = I-200 ( according to Sobolew ) I 26 = yak 1 / I 301 = LaGG-1 .
later they called the planes after the designer/developer.

Re: I 61 - American?
 

Hi Christer,

My grandfather was with a section of Flak-Transportbatterie 2./41 which was assigned to work with a 2cm Flak battery protecting the airfield. I don't know which battery this was or what Flak-Abteilung it belonged to. The only clue is that the regimental Stab reported 60 kills (+ 19 possible kills) by the end of September.

The Zugfu[e]hrer of the battery that shot down one of the planes was a Hptm. Hauser (possibly Hanser).

The Russian pilot managed to escape into a nearby wood, but was wounded in the hand - a glove was found in the cockpit with a finger in it (a bullet smashed the steering stick).

Thanks for your interest.

Re: I 61 - American?
 

It is MiG-1/3 I believe... Therse markings can be also found in the lists of captured Soviet planes published in "Barbarossa Victims" by T. Kopanski.
Markings I-200, I-26, I-301 were the names of prototypes of the new planes designed in 1940. At the moment of entering the production names were changed to well known MiG-1, Yak-1 and LaGG-3.
BTW - MiG -3 can have some foreign roots - it's ancesor -Project X (or K) is quite similar (in idea) to XP-37... But we may also said that Russians could decide to biuld the new plane taking after He-100.

Re: I 61 - American?
 

not just prototypes.
from an book by Dimitri Alexejwitsch Sobolev , translated in german.

""
Ein weiteres Beispiel für den deutschen Einfluss auf die sowj. Luftfahrt in den Vorkriegsjahren :
Zum Jahresende 1940 entschied das ZK der RKP(B) über die künftige Benennung neuer Kampfflugzeuge mit dem ersten Buchstaben des Namens des Hauptkonstrukteurs .
Jak 1 anstelle von I 26 , Mig 1 anstelle von I 200. etc etc.

Re: I 61 - American?
 

Sorry to correct you, but it was the I-153 which sometimes erroneously was called "Curtiss".

Re: I 61 - American?
 

Thank you Christer for the correction, of course you are right.

A good list can be found in Die Jagdfliegerverbänce der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945 Teil 6 / I Unternehmen "Barbarossa" Einsatz im Osten 22-6 bis 5-12-1941, by Jochen Prien and his team. It can be found on page 11 and contains a list of mistaken a/c identifications and designations.

Re: I 61 - American?
 

My post was too short...;)
I-200 was the name of prototype and first "null" series of about 100 planes which on 9.12.1941 were called MiG-1. So when entered the phase of military tests in 41 IAP in late December 1940 they were already called Mig-1. The serial numbers of MiG-1 were 2001-2100. Serials of MiG-3 started from 2101.
By Chazanov, Medvied, Maslov "Istriebitiel MiG-3" Moscow 2003.
The name "LaGG" appeeared first in december 1940 - the name was LaGG-1 and was given on 9.12.1941 by the order of NKAP, when Factory No 23 was trying to produce first 5 aircrafts of this type. Name was later changed to LaGG-3 when production was started in Factory No. 21 - first plane accomplished on 10.02.1941. It looks like none of produced aircraft was called I-301 - prototypes only.
Jakubovich "Samoliety Lavochkina", Moscow 2002
In "Piervyi Yak" by Kuznecov there is information that 66 (for all 1940) I-26 of military trial and initial series were produced in 1940 (Factories No 115, 292, 303). So in this point info by Sobolev is corect. 5 I-26 were shown during 1st may parade in Moscow.The name was changed by the same decision of NKAP on 9.12.1940.
But we must remember that these planes were in tests - in NII VVS or-in case of Mig-1, in combat units under care of NII. So it may be possible than names I-xxx were not familiar to militay stuff of first line fighter units.
Now, I think we're clear ;).

Re: I 61 - American?
 

Off topic but for those who are interested.

Here are a few more designations for MiG-1/3 derivatives/prototypes.

I-211(E): MiG-3 M-82 (or MiG-9) fitted with boosted M-82 engine
I-230(D): MiG-3U fitted with 2 x ShVAK 20mm
I-231(2D): MiG-3 fitted with AM-38F high altitude engine
I-220(A): MiG-3 fitted with AM-39 and 4 x ShVAK 20mm

Andy Fletcher

Re: I 61 - American?
 

All this planes were designd after (of in time - MiG-3 M82) stopping the production of MiG-3 in 1941/1942.
To names mentioned by Andy I can add: I-221. I-222, I-224 and I-225 designed in period 1942 - 1945. And it was the and of I-200 family I guess. MiG-9 (MiG-3 M82 and propably MiG-3 M82E) and MiG-3U were tested in combat conditions in i.e. 12 GIAP and 177IAP.
Very interesting modification of I-200 was IP-201 - the design of very heavily armoured fighter - 2xShKAS 7,62mm and 2xMP-3 20mm. Programme was halted in 1940.
I'm also sorry for being OT but it looks that this topic is about... MiG-3. And now we have mentioned, I think, all the names of prototypes and production fighters by Mikoyan and Gurievitch in 1940-1945.

Re: I 61 - American?
 

There is Off Topic and there is Off Topic.

The topic of a thread can change, however if the change is unwanted by some of the participants they can always ask a moderator to split the thread into a new topic and the original.

In this case there is little harm done, on the contrary! :)

Re: I 61 - American?
 

Thanks for the replies!