No.417 Sqn RCAF loss, 30-12-1942 (Cyprus)
 

Hello,

Some discussion over at RAFComms re loss of No.417 Sqn RCAF Spitfire Vb ER209 (thanks Malcolm), J6814 F/O (Pilot) Joseph Fisher PATERSON RCAF. http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...064#post146064

Any substance to the theory that Spitfire ER209 was shot down by a Ju 88? Check link (Post # 2), at RAFComms.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Col.

Re: No.417 Sqn RCAF loss, 30-12-1942 (Cyprus)
 

Hello Col,
From "Fighter Squadrons of the RAF" by JDR Rawlings.
"The squadron began leisurely to reequip with Spitfires in October. By December it had four and these were sent for a months detachment to Cyprus".

Other details are -
Edku - Oct 42 - Jan 43.
Detachment at Heliopolis, Nicosia.
Hurricane IIc - Sept 42 - Jan 43.
Spitfire VB - Oct 42 - Sept 43.
Spitfire Vc - Nov 42 - Sept 43.

From air history.com

417
P7281 P7294 P7310 P7315 P7320 P7353 P7544 P7602 P7610 P7660 P7687 P7747 P7781 P7834 P7983 P8018 P8047 P8071 P8132 P8168 P8186 P8192 P8201 P8238 P8508 P8570 P8667 W3212 W3441 W3575 W3817 W3895 AA745 AA852 AA911 AB797 AB935 AD125 AD302 AD316 AD319 AD505 AD577 BL295 BL328 BL434 BL847 BL887 BL932 BL994 ER854 ES127 ES365 JF526 JF874 MJ411

Alex

Re: No.417 Sqn RCAF loss, 30-12-1942 (Cyprus)
 

Alex,

Thanks, I'm fully aware of the detachments* of 417 Sqn RCAF.

What I need is information on the alleged assailant on 30 December, 1942.

Spitfire ER209 was a Vb

*
Idku, Egpyt 10 Oct 42 - 24 Jan 43.

4 aircraft each at:
Cairo. Egypt, 7 Oct 42 - 22 Nov 42,
Al Kufra Oasis, Libyan Desert 3-25 Nov 42,
Cyprus 7 Dec 42 - 7 Jan 43.
Benghazi, Libya 7 Dec 42 - 7 Jan 43.

Col.

Re: No.417 Sqn RCAF loss, 30-12-1942 (Cyprus)
 

Hello Col,
Think I missed the point :( thought you were seeking to confirm that the Spitfire was ER209 .
But now see you search for a Luftwaffe aircraft :)
Alex

Re: No.417 Sqn RCAF loss, 30-12-1942 (Cyprus)
 

Hi Col

The ORB Form 540 states they received a telegram saying Patterson was killed in a flying accident in the Lanacca (?) hills. I assume it would have mentioned if it had been operational flight and that there had been a combat there would be a combat report, A CR does not appear in the appendices which has nearly all of them for the whole war. Also no listing in the 541 of any scramble involving Patterson, but that may simply be because he was on Cyprus and the detachments flights are not noted. Or it may be it was a non operational flight and often the RAF units never listed those at all.

I have never come across any hint of a combat but, the best source would be the War diaries of the higher order units, which I can't recall having seen for Dec 42. However I shall check the ORBs for who else was on Cyprus as if nothing else they may mention the loss because they may have gone to look for him.


Interesting

Russell

Re: No.417 Sqn RCAF loss, 30-12-1942 (Cyprus)
 

Hi Col

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...aspx?B=1359192

is a link to 451 squadrons Form 540 for 30 December. Mentions a lot of scrambles plus Barney Wallis leading a search for a crashed Spitfire. No mention of any combats, so I would suspect it was an accident, unless some one can find out some more!.

Russ

Re: No.417 Sqn RCAF loss, 30-12-1942 (Cyprus)
 

Russ,

At the moment, we only have what is written here:

https://wartimes.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=614

Notwithstanding the Form 551 (Report of Accidental Death), it does state, "Killed in aircraft accident - in the opinion of Court of Inquiry "Shot down"!

The quote from the Canadian Official History - The RCAF Overseas - The First Four Years (p.328, my edition, 1944), is also perplexing:

"Early in December a detachment of pilots and Spitfires was sent to Cyprus for a month's operations. While in the island one of the pilots, F/O J F Patterson [sic], was killed in action. His burnt-out aircraft was found in the foothills near Larnaka. The guns had been fired and it is believed that he had intercepted a Ju. 88 over the island, engaged it and had been shot down."

Col.

Re: No.417 Sqn RCAF loss, 30-12-1942 (Cyprus)
 

Col.

Logged into CAF Archive and found:

Official Canadian Casualty Notification to parents also has:

AIR MIN KWY - PX6519 - d - I -JAN - 43

"Killed" 30-DEC-42 During Air Operations (Overseas)
(At Laranacate in Middle East)

Dated: 16 - JAN - 43

However Reverse side of Form 551 has:

Court of Inquiry cared out on 4 - JAN - 43 by HQ 259 WING - S/L Harris

TNA:

259 Wing RAF Station Nicosia reports & Misc., AIR 49/7

259 Wing HQ Administrative matters., AIR 23/1070

Andy Bird

Re: No.417 Sqn RCAF loss, 30-12-1942 (Cyprus)
 

Hello
Names of those involved in the detachment on the 9th December were ( from ORB ) -

Paterson, R. L.
Paterson, J. F.
Pate, K. S.
Hazel, R. L.
and
Percival, T. N.

A/c on Squadron strength -
20 Hurricanes. (2c ).
4 Spitfire's. ( 2 - Vb, 2 - Vc ).
1 Blenheim. Mk.4.

Spitfire serial numbers noted are -
AB321
BR201
BR384


As there are five names I wonder if the Blenheim was used to transfer the four pilots equipment and aircraft esentuals ?

Alex

Re: No.417 Sqn RCAF loss, 30-12-1942 (Cyprus)
 

Gentlemen,

Thanks for your help on this one.

Col.