Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Yes PZ, the turret is definitely not a Blenheim.
AM777 , PZ ⊙G, September 14th, 1941.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hurricane is N2453 - you can see the DX code overpainted, which is 245 Sqn - other possibilities, N2403 and N2473, have been rejected in this way.

Mariusz

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thanks. I'm trying to decide what other marks it is wearing - code I perhaps?

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thank you for the comments Gents.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/155463676611...Bk9SR7Kak5XgYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/155463546884...Bk9SR7iak5XgYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/125834170699...Bk9SR7qak5XgYQ

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Post #2593 photo 1

https://www.ebay.de/itm/374565540657

Seems to be a copy, not original.
The original was first shown on the old LEMB board. The reverse side had handwritten notes on it, the paper also showed its age being yellowish.

I believe that the aircraft could be L4980 or P2250 ?

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

I believe you're right Alex. However, few people know the Luftwaffe Experten Message Board even existed, unlike, say, a reference book on my shelf. I can still log onto the LEMB. Sadly, most reading this cannot.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thanks for the confirmation Ed, sadly some but not all of the eBay photos on the old LEMB can no longer be accessed.
Still wish that the LEMB was a live forum ��
All the very best
Alex��

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

I feel the need to add that books, including those from the 1800s, can still be found in good condition and for little money. The internet, on the other hand, is subject to outside interference, and files can disappear. So much for "progress." In my view, this means years or even decades of knowledge just disappear, with none the wiser. Take LWAG. Anyone?


Physical artifacts are a requirement or you might see this site disappear as it almost did in 2021.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/364192462769

B.24H 42-78106 Cherry II later became NF+NL

There is another photo taken at the same time that shows the serial number on the tail.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Photos + Documents
https://historical-media.com/_featured_shafer.htm
Uniform + medal
https://historical-media.com/_featured_mickey.htm

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/295589902734...Bk9SR4DU45LlYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/295589906956...Bk9SR4DU45LlYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/295590256198...Bk9SR4LU45LlYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/266192102144...Bk9SR4LU45LlYQ

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thanks Ed

#2617_2-3-4 : Potez 637 n°20 of GR I/33 shot down on 20/12/1939 ; all crew WIA/POW

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

#2615 photo 4 (now up to EUR 849!) shows Hampden AT109/UB-C of 455 Sqn. Details of its loss here:
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/191227
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Orator

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thank you Bertrand and Andy.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/394547440439...Bk9SR8iKi5LpYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/394547434930...Bk9SR8iKi5LpYQ

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

#2 is Battle P5235 of 150 Sqn, shot down by AA fire on 19 May 40 in the vicinity of Barby. The crew was taken POW.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/155493133617...Bk9SR5Lm7tbrYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/155493092894...Bk9SR5Lm7tbrYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/155493049063...Bk9SR5Lm7tbrYQ

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/385534109016...Bk9SR4Cxu6_sYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/145026149781...Bk9SR4Cxu6_sYQ

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

....next photo of same Wellington fro previous post:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/385534208899...75.c101224.m-1

https://www.ebay.de/itm/385534109016...Bk9SR4Cxu6_sYQ

Serial number T28xx (80,89,90,98) - but it not fit to MTO?

Any idea of serial number?

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

This one is tricky indeed.
I think all agree on that what we are looking at is an aircraft in the T2880 - T2899 range.
Just like Faenor I believe the last two digits has to be either an 8, 9 or a 0.
The inside volume of the last digit looks slightly larger so it could well be a 0.

This leaves us with
T2880 99Sq lost 8 July 1941 on a mission to Cologne
T2888 99Sq (LN-R) lost 12 Feb 1942
T2889 15OTU crashed near Mount Farm 20 Oct 1942
T2890 148Sq 'E' belly landed Gambut 30 March 1941 and burned when airfield was evacuated.
T2898 18OTU overshot landing at Hemswell 11 June 1942
T2899 27OTU destroyed by fire at Lichfield 29 Dec 1941

Of the above possibilities we ca rule out T2889, T2898 and T2899 since they all happened in the UK
If the data for T2890 are correct that one can also be ruled out. The code on this aircraft is a B (or
just possibly an R)

That leaves us with only two options, T2880 and T2888.
If we free ourselves from the Trapani statement from the seller and the last digit really is a 0,
I would favour T2880. Any other takers? :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

T2880 is indeed the obvious candidate. The entire crew were taken POW, and some reports say it force-landed in the Netherlands. Perhaps this can be confirmed? Sadly the 99 Sqn ORB does not list codes, so I have no idea if this was B.

T2888 on the other hand was abandoned over the UK and crashed near Wisbech, so not a viable option. This was on 12 Feb 1941 by the way.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Gentlemen
It is with some trepidation that I tiptoe into this discussion on the Wellington depicted in post 2627. Surely those photos show lots of sand and very little vegetation in the background such as might be found at Gambut? The eBay caption suggests an Italian source Trapani is in Sicily. The personnel appear to be more Italian than German to me and the aircraft seems to have been derelict for a while. Perhaps Stig could explain where the code letter 'E' for T2890 comes from? Perhaps T2890 was not burned...
This thread is usually great entertainment
Steve

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/155498507485...Bk9SR-rYmNLtYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/155498505947...Bk9SR-rYmNLtYQ

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

First of all, Andy thanks for your extra input.

Steve, the code letter E can be found in the book Bomber losses in the Middle East and Mediterranean Vol 1 by Gunby/Temple.
Since we, hopefully, can agree that Trapani is not correct, I agree the background do look very dry and desolate so Gambut
is a clear contender. I ruled it out due to both the code letter and described circumstances.
The way I see it, there is "only" one individual with a more Italian look about him, which fits NA but not quite "the Netherlands".

I am certainly game to change my opinion from T2880 to T2890, even if I do dislike too many "ifs".... :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thanks Stig

It seems the 148Sqn Forms 541 are missing for that period in 1941 but the Form 540 on 30 March records the squadron move away from Gambut and states that two Wellingtons including 'B' were left behind...

As you say a bit of an "if"...

Steve

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

This is the often-photographed L5234, which was abandoned at Béthenivillein May 1940.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi SteveB,Stig and AndyMa - thank you for your opinion and my bet is on T2890 too :-)

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/225522331624...Bk9SR7qa96zuYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/285233716614...Bk9SR-qqwsjvYQ
https://www.ebay.de/itm/295604841179...Bk9SR-yqwsjvYQ

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

#2636 pic1 : F-ANQH LéO H242/1 c/n 11

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thanks Ed

2638_1 : MS406 n°908 of GC I/6, 1ère escadrille shot down on 07/06/1940 close to Frettemolle (Somme) ; slt Jacques Paturle KIA

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Probably the most rubbish fantasy statement I ever come across on e-bay.
Photo almost certainly taken at Renton before delivery to USAAF 29 Oct 1944.

Cheers
Stig