Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Which stories behind these photos?

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Which stories behind these photos?

Re: Which stories behind these photos?

YT-F of 65 Sqn is likely to be Spitfire II P7733 which was shot down on 5th Feb 1941. Sgt HC Orchard Age 24 was killed and buried at Neufchatel-Hardelot.

Source - RAF Fighter Command Losses 1939-41 by Norman Franks

Re: Which stories behind these photos?

Spitfire JU of 111 Sqn is actually P7824 if you look closely, which failed to return from a Fighter Sweep on evening of 19th August 1941. The pilot P/O JA Timmis was made a POW.

Source - RAF Fighter Command Losses 1939-41 by Norman Franks

Re: Which stories behind these photos?

AZ-K of 234 Sqn is harder to trace.

I am guessing is a Spitfire II and that the photo dates from 1941 from its camo and rough appearance; the A and Z are possibly not the same size, the individual letter K could have been changed and there is sloppy paint work on the band around the rear fuselage that has covered over the serial number. 234 Sqn got Spitfire Mk V later in the year which would probably have looked neater.

Assuming that the aircraft crash landed and the pilot became a POW my guess is that this aircraft is P8395 flown by Sgt Martin and lost to Bf 109s on an ASR escort on 17th July 1941. Although Sgt Martin was listed as Missing it transpired that he crash landed in France or close to the shore and became a POW.

Re: Which stories behind these photos?

AZ-K is clearly a Supermarine or Westland built Mk V.

Re: Which stories behind these photos?

Voytech - your a better man than me for knowing AZ-K was a Mk V. What identifying points did you spot in the photos?

Re: Which stories behind these photos?

Hello Larry,

Thanks a lot for your precisions. The reported facts are very interesting.
Looking closely at YT°F's serial, seems to me that the last two cyphers are 37 and not 33. Any other possibility, in this case?
Regarding the "unknown" serial on the barge, it seems effectively that this peculiar spifire has been picked out of the sea by a recovery german unit. So, it may be P8395.
Alongside the photos of AZ°K on ebay, there are photos (from same batch) of a recovered Bf109-F and of a Whitley after what looks like an in water emergency landing.
http://cgi.ebay.de/040-2x-O-Foto-eng...item20aed1718f
http://cgi.ebay.de/039-Orig-Foto-eng...item1e59dc3761
http://cgi.ebay.de/038-Orig-Foto-eng...item1e59dc3757
http://cgi.ebay.de/042-3x-O-Foto-Gef...item1e59dc3775
http://cgi.ebay.de/041-O-Foto-Gefang...item20aed1719b

And finally, Larry, any suggestion concerning the first one spitfire : W3108 ?
http://cgi.ebay.de/007-2x-O-Foto-abg...item1e59e0192f

Regards,

Re: Which stories behind these photos?

I am pretty sure that YT-F is P7697 in which Kay William crashed on August 21st 1941.

/John

Re: Which stories behind these photos?

I agree with John - Sgt William Kay was KIA with 65 Sqn and the second from last number could certainly be a 9.

Regarding Spitfire W3108 - this in fact did not exist as the batch started at W3109!!!! Also I could not actually see the serial number in the photo, so its hard to help on this one.

As for the Whitley I have not yet found a possible ID for it but I enjoyed looking! It is fun to make sweeping generalisations too - so here goes:

Firstly we need to find a Whitley that came down in the sea near to German held territory, where at least three of the crew were captured, as three crewmen are seen in the photo. This discounts many A/cs that were lost without trace with their crews. Also the photos captions roughly translated say jokingly 'boat required for England' and also 'Guernsey Prisoner' which obviously connects it to the Channel Islands. After all the photographer is hardly likely to put that on the photo if the plane came down near Holland or NW Germany. Ideally a bombing mission to Brest and other ports in Brittany would give a reason to be near Guernsey. However Bomber Command Losses does recount how one aircraft heading back to Leeming from Germany crashed out of fuel 22 miles SW of Pembroke, so nothing is impossible.

Looking at the photo of the Whitley I thought that it might be all black in colour, without the usual green and brown camo - and this scheme was used by 10 Sqn Whitleys for a time in 1941 and yet so far I cannot find any in Bomber Command Losses that fit the 'facts' from that Sqn or any of the others for 1940-1942. However some entries in BCL are similar to 'lost without trace but crew later confirmed as POW' so unless Bill Chorley received further info it will remain as such.

Next area for searching will be OTU losses which I think will give the answer!

Lastly could you post the link for the Bf 109F from eBay.de as it may relate to 17th July 1941 which I am interested in relating to Blenheim P4832

Re: Which stories behind these photos?

Re the Whitley being recovered, it does seem as if it was out of fuel as none of the propellor blades look bent back as I think they would be if running when ditching.
Strangely, the undercarriage appears to have been down, I don't think as a result of being winched up, perhaps they landed on some mud flats or beach?
Also the nose is covered by what appears to be a fishing net, maybe a couple of days later a trawler snagged its net and found the Whitley when the tide went out?
If it is all black, then maybe another part of the net is draped over the rear fuselage?
It certainly looks in remarkably undamaged condition, although there is a large ragged hole in the starboard wing just past the engine mount, and both rudders look damaged.
One crew member also appears to have a large bandage on his head.
Very fetching footwear, presumably he lost his flying boots and someone lent him their slippers!!