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Geoff Kennell 18th January 2005 19:07

Entering names when searching German war graves website etc.
From time to time when searching for the grave details etc. of an airman on the German war graves website, I am having problems due to an umlaut in the name, as you can't enter an umlaut in the search box, which results in the airman not being 'found'.

I know that there are ways around this such as using 'ue' when there is an umlaut over the 'u' but can anyone post a list of the other letter combinations that can be used to get around umlauts in German names?

Does anyone have any other tips that can be used when searching for an airman on this website, i.e. can you use a 'wildcard' when you're not sure of the spelling? (i.e. gall*)

I would also appreciate some help with the following airmen, whom I've been unable to locate on the German war graves website-

Badstubner, Fw M, 3/4-3-43, 9/KG76. Ju88 WNr 4369. I have a photo of his grave at Cannock Chase, but can't find his details on the website. There is an umlaut over the 'u' but even when using 'ue' I still can't find him!

Flick, Uffz H, 8-9-40, 5/KG2. Do17 WNr 3415. Buried St Margaret’s Churchyard, Broomfield.

Selter, Uffz W, 8-9-40, 5/KG2. Do17 WNr 3415. Buried St Margaret’s Churchyard, Broomfield.

Trost, Uffz H, 8-9-40, 5/KG2. Do17 WNr 3415. Buried St Margaret’s Churchyard, Broomfield.

Geisler, Hptmn K, 6/7-9-43.I/SKG10. Fw190 WNr 840006.

Hellmuth, Oberlt H, 18-8-40, 6/ZG26. Me110 WNr ? Missing, no known grave?

Zeims, Oberlt, M, 8-9-40, 5/KG2. Do17 WNr 3415. Buried Maidstone Cemetery.

Is there anywhere on the Internet where you can get details (names, DoB etc.) for German airman with no known grave?

Any help would be gratefully received.


robert_schulte 18th January 2005 20:19

Sorry, but I can only help you in the first part of the question.
For any German letter with dots on it you can replace the dots by typing an "e" directly behind the letter, so
ü becomes ue
ö becomes oe
ä becomes ae
BTW, it is not the dots itself, which is called Umlaut, but the whole letter with the dots.
Another "tricky" letter is the German "sharp s" = ß. Instead of this, you can type "ss" or sometimes in older papers "sz".
However, I guess that for most but not for all search engines these replacement works properly.
Hope this helps a bit

Geoff Kennell 18th January 2005 21:10

Thanks Robert for the info.

As I mentioned with my first post, I've tried 'oe' when looking for Badstubner. It's given as 'Badstuber' in 'The Blitz, then & now! and I have tried this spelling, but it is written 'Badstubner' on his headstone (with the dots over the 'u'), & although 3 entries come up, he's not one of them???


Gerrie Franken 20th January 2005 23:40

Hello It isn't difficult type for a umlaut shift " en u.
See for result below Gräbersuche

Zum Gedenken

Nachname: Badstübner
Vorname: Manfred
Geburtsdatum: 17.10.1920

Manfred Badstübner ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Cannock Chase (Großbritannien) .
Endgrablage: Block 1 Reihe 9 Grab 359

Geoff Kennell 21st January 2005 09:52


Many thanks for 'finding' Manfred, I've tried to follow what you said, but still can't get his details to come up!

Can you type exactly as you would enter them in the 'Nachname' box examples of names with each of the umlaut letters. This way may be easier than trying to explain it, & I can see exactly what to do.



robert_schulte 21st January 2005 10:36

you can type either "Badstübner" (with Umlaut) or "Badstuebner" in the "Nachname"-box and after starting search you have to go to page 3 ("vor blättern"). There is listed at the bottom: Badstübner Manfred 17.10.1920
There is a kind of wild card at this site, if you are not sure about the spelling, you have to type at least the first 3 letters (DON'T type the "*") and if possible the first letter of the christian name (Vorname), then you have to search through the pages.
Manfred Badstübner is the only person on your list, whom I can find on this site.
Kind regards

Geoff Kennell 21st January 2005 18:39


Many thanks, I've found the entry too now. I think part of the reason I couldn't find it before was that I was entering the year of death, which is missing from his informtion on the wargraves website.

Has anyone tried to locate the other airmen I've listed on the wargraves website & failed too?


Peter Cornwell 22nd January 2005 10:28

Missing German aircrew in UK 1940
Not much remained of three of the crew of the Do17 that crashed near St Margaret's Church, Broomfield, on 8 September 1940 and then exploded. Fragmentary remains of what was thought to be two 'Unknown German Airmen' were buried there & later reinterred in Cannock Chase where they now occupy Graves 5.1.1 & 5.1.2. The pilot, Martin ZIEMS, was the only one identifiable & was found on the banks of the River Lens attached to his parachute. He was taken to Sutton Road Cemetery, Maidstone, for burial where he remains to this day.

Regarding Oberlt Heinz HELLMUTH & his gunner, Fw Franz WINTER, of 6./ZG26 who crashed at Green Hill Farm, Platts Heath, Lenham, on 18 August 1940. This was another particularly grisly incident & the authorities did well to record both ID numbers allowing for positive identification. Try St Nicholas' Church, Boughton Malherbe, for their original burial. Outside the parish where they fell, but the nearest churchyard to the actual crash site I believe.

Geoff Kennell 23rd January 2005 11:22

Thanks for the info Peter.

Its strange that Zeims doesn't show up on the war graves website, when I look for him anyway!

Presumably the others don't show up because they don't have 'regular' graves - buried as 'Unknown' etc.

Can you search on the German war graves website for aircrew who have no known grave, as with the CWGC, & are they commemorated anywhere?


Joe Potter 27th January 2005 19:55

Hauptmann Kurt Geisler
Hi Geoff,
It is believed that it was Geisler's Fw 190 that crashed at Hawstead, Suffolk, 21.45 hrs, 6.9.43, the pilot was originally buried in Bury St Edmunds cemetery on the 10th of September 1943, and moved to Cannock Chase on 22.11.62.
He is now lying, still unnamed, in Block 1, Row 12, Grave 465.

If some form of documented proof could be found that it was indeed Geisler's aircraft, his grave could be named, at last.

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