JG 52 victories
 

I've been going through the notes on my desk to clean it off and found one of interest to start this out. I'll add more as I go along. I'm sure there will be some corrections.

15May 12:10
(Don't have victory claim number yet)
Lt Erich Hartmann 7./JG 52 U-2 86544: Tiefflug

I found on this date and location the following. Near the station at Titarovskaya the U-2 flown by Leytenant Vladimir Ivanovich Ershov (senior pilot)[KIA] 274 IAP (3 IAK) and passenger Ml.Lt. Evgeniy Ivanovich Kryukov [MIA] 43 IAP (3 IAK).

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Michael,

Direct hit. This was one of Hartmann's victories. Plane belonged to headquarters of 278 IAD.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Nikita, Thank you. I wasn't sure who the plane belonged too.

I also found this one against the VVS Black Sea Fleet.
26Sep42 near Kabardinka
Hptm Johannes Steinhoff Stab II/JG 52 15:39 & 15:40
(109) Yak-1B (#3084) 62 IAP ChF St.Lt. Dmitriy Vasilevich Plakhuta (KIA)
(110) Yak-1B (#1686) 62 IAP ChF Serzhant Kamyshan (Sorry, I don't have his full name.)
Steinhoff has the location listed as 10 km NE of Gelendshik.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Possible. I have not seen VVS ChF accounts.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

On the Yak-1B the serial numbers were for these pilots the day they were shot down in the naval archives. One of the wrecks were recovered and I believe the pilot remains. I would like to have added Kamyshan's full name as I'm sure that someone here will write about Steinhoff one day and his name would be recorded beyond a simple file in some archive.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

The 274 IAP had two Yak-7 attacked in the area of Neberdzhayevskaya on the 15May43 but I'll limit this to the part involving JG52 (The other matched perfectly a JG3 victory). Lt Konstantin Petrovich Komardinkin was hit by Uffz Gerhard Hoffmann 4./JG52 at 11:20 75 264 at 6500 m. Nikita can probably give more information on what happen to the aircraft from his description it landed burning on Komardinkin's airfield.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Hi Nokose,

I for one am interested in what happened to the Yak claimed by JG 3. Please share.

Nick

Re: JG 52 victories
 

I'd rather stick to the point that Hoffmann's counterpart was M/L Khalilov of 291 IAP, who was shot up at 12.20 (M.T.) in Neberdzhajevskaja area and force-landed at Abinskaja. For Shukin and Komardinkin time of sortie was 11.35-12.12 (M.T.)

Re: JG 52 victories
 

So, VVS used the modernized Yak-1B already in the Kuban that early. Interesting, as production only started that month - at least in GAZ 292. I always thought the type was first used in Stalingrad.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

On 23May43 05:55 near Erivan Fw Werner Quast 4./JG 52 shot down Yak-1(#25134) of the 6 GIAP ChF flown by Guards Lt. Nikolay Kirillovich Sukharev (KIA). The remains of his aircraft were recovered near Erivan.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

26Fe43
Oblt. Gerhard Barkhorn 4./JG52 LaGG-3 75 463 10:45
Uffz Werner Quast 4./JG52 LaGG-3 75 464 10:47

269 IAP
LaGG-3 (#2742) pilot Sokolov
LaGG-3 pilot Malyshev
(Sorry, only have the last names). LaGG-3 (#2742) the remains were recovered in the past few years.)

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Michael,

Could you point out the source of this info from Soviet side?

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Please keep them coming....
This is a very interesting thread.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

13Jun43 07:37 25 251 (Nikolaev region) at 3000 m
7./JG 52 Oblt. Walter Krupinski claimed a "Boston"

Lost on a reconn. mission was A-20 Boston (#23258) 30 ORAP ChF flown by Ml.Lt. Evgeniy Vasilevich Snegov who was KIA along with his crew in the Nikolaev region.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

What is known of Lipfert's opponents? I have always been fascinated by his war diary and would love to know who "the other guys" were

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Re: JG 52 victories
 

The book by Vlad Antipov "Dragons on bird wings" listed for the 6May44 that Lipfert shot down a U-2 of the 402 IAP killing Lt. Anatoliy Filonov and Semen Denisov over the Black Sea while they were looking for a downed pilot from their unit. Andrey Kuznetsov has enough information probably to write a book on the air war during the Kerch landing in 1943 but unforunately seems to be tied up on another project. Of course it would probably be best to wait to JFV 12/II came out to see if any new information showed up. Nikita Egorov's book would be the best bet for JG 52 at Stalingrad that's coming out this year.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Several points:

• Thanks Joerg, I had seen the earlier post about Lipfert's claim against the Li-2, it corrects the info in his war diary that makes it look like he downed a Boston in that instance. In fact, that original post had put the idea in my head that some forum contributers might have info to share on others among his opponents.
• Are the books mentioned available/going to become available in English?
• Does anyone else have info to share on this fascinating subject?

Nick

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Afaik, sadly Mr. Prien does not check any claims for losses on th enemy side. At least he did not do this in the books I own.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Nick, the book by Nikita Egorov is already on Amazon.com for pre-order and yes it's in English.

No, Dr. Prien does not check claims in his books but he does provide correct claims for the types and locations placed by the pilots at the time (it helps to have a team backing you on your work). I've found several so far in JFV 12/I that were completely different then Tony Woods list and a lot that were not even listed.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Thanks Nokose,

I will definitely look out for Nikita's book.
Do you have details of any more JG 52 casualties that you can put up on the forum?

Nick

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Here is a loss list, if that thelps you:
http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/Verlus..._vl_chrono.htm

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Thanks Yogybaer,
But I am looking for Soviet losses to match with German victory claims rather than the other way round.

Nick

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Is there any more info from forum members to resurrect/add to this interesting thread?

Nick

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Here is one loss I just studied today, and relevant to this thread.

On 31 October 1942 a Pe-2 of 366 BAP was shot down by enemy fighters during a reconnaissance mission in Nalchik area and crashed in enemy territory. Both crew, Mladshii Leyteinant Nikolai Fadeevich Medvedev (pilot) and Serzhant Nikolai Vasilevich Tsirkunov (air gunner), were killed.

They were probably shot down by Major Hubertus von Bonin, the Kommandeur of III./JG 52, who claimed a Pe-2 shot down in Pl.Qu. 44 Ost/34762 (SW of Nalchik) at 7000 m (coherent with a recon flight) at 1405 hrs as his 41st victory (and the fourth of the day). It is the only known German claim for a Pe-2 this day.

In 2005, the search group "Memorial Air" found the crashsite of their aircraft, the Pe-2 19-114, near the village of Ahsarisara, SOuth Ossetia. The remains of the airmen were still inside and were buried on 24 April 2010 in the village of Mayramadage, near the memorial of the defenders of Suarskogo pass.

The following article is describing the burial ceremony:

"In the mournful list of soldiers who fell in the battles for the Home, but still did not find rest in the land of the two name has become smaller. On Saturday in Mayramadage with all military honours were buried the remains of the pilots Nikolai Medvedev’s and Nikolai Tsyirkunova killed in the sky over the breakaway regions of South Ossetia.
The farewell ceremony with the pilots of a bomber «PE-2», crashed in the fall of 1942, Nikolai Medvedev’s and Nikolai Tsirkunova, started in St. George’s Cathedral, where at the soldiers of the funeral prayer. After the urn with the remains of the soldiers set on an armored personnel carrier, which was accompanied by a stretched out on the forty meters motorcade moved to the side of the memorial burial in with. Mayramadag.
On the way the escort twice stayed for a while - the participants of the ceremony laid flowers on the Stele of Victory and the monument to Peter Barbashovu.
All the way to Mayramadaga relatives of the dead pilots never ceased to admire the scenery, otkryivavshimsya the Windows of the van, and bombarded issues the main organizer of the event Stanislav Dzeboeva.
"And this is your mountain? Which of them Kazbek? - asked nephew Nicholas of Medvedev’s.
- Kazbek is not visible in the clouds. It is only the hills...
"And in these fields that seed spread?
- Corn.
"And here I have in the Urals corn does not do well, " concluded Nikolay Konovalov, named in honor of the deceased in the sky Ossetia uncle.
At the ceremony of burial Nikolai arrived together with her daughter Olga. As it turned out, in the family of Konovalovs long time to thoroughly gathered the information about the missing during the war relative. They had called in the draft office and other organizations, to look for the lost tracks of the pilot Nikolai Medvedev’s.
- In my childhood I had heard stories about the heroic dead uncle. For our family it has long been an example for imitation. And when we got a call from the search of «memorial-Avia», we don’t even have to think and immediately decided to come to Vladikavkaz, to give the last honors of our relatives. I hope this trip will not be the last. I was pleasantly impressed by your Republic, and in particular its people. Nowhere have never met such friendly and good-natured people, - said Nikolay Konovalov.
In Mayramadage arrived waiting for the villagers and government delegation - Vice Prime Ministers Sergei Tabolov and Vitaly Zangionov, Minister of culture of Fatima Habalova and Chairman of the parliamentary Committee Lyudmila tokayeva. A memorial meeting opened by the head of the Council of veterans of North Ossetia Soltan Kabolov. He thanked the search engine organization «memorial-Avia», which will help many of the remains of the pilots were identified and faithful to the earth. After this, the word took numerous guests of the event, among whom was the nephew of operator Tsirkunova - Vladimir Tsirkunov, who arrived from Ukraine. He also noted the work of the Ossetian search engines that «regardless of the nationality, cherish and honor the memory of the Soviet soldiers who defended our great Motherland». In the family Tsirkunovyih, too, until recently, did not know the details of the death of their relative.
- The only known fact about my uncle was the fact that the plane on which he was flying crashed somewhere in the Caucasus. So when we hear the news that his remains discovered in North Ossetia, we were all just amazed! Now, finally, in the long history of searches a set point, and our family will find peace of mind»,- said Vladimir Tsirkunov.
After solemn speeches began burial ceremony. Under volleys of the guns and the Russian national anthem urn containing the ashes of Medvedev’s and Tsirkunova was lowered into the grave, and the relatives of the peppered the earth, specially brought from the homeland of the pilots, as well as from the place where their plane crashed «PE-2» in. Ahsarisar. In memory of the victims on the territory of the memorial landed two young firs. Finally families buried pilots were presented with memorable gifts, banners and caps military-air forces of the Soviet Union, but the most valuable exhibits for them, indeed, became the personal belongings of soldiers, who were found in the plane. Among them were the pen knives, watches, pens radio, coins, purse, belt and fragments of a parachute.
Before leaving, all the participants went to the battle the kitchen, where, as befits remember pilots and partook of this soldier’s porridge and warmed up with hot tea."

Source:
http://allaces.ru/p/people.php?id=12994
http://allaces.ru/p/people.php?id=12982
http://to15.minjust.ru/node/2651?theme=minjust
http://www.osetia.info/articles/2515/
Luftwaffe claim lists by Tony Wood and Jim Perry (http://lesbutler.co.uk/claims/tonywood.htm)
"Die Jagdfliegerverbände der deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Teil 9/II: Vom Sommerfeldzug 1942 bis zur Niderlage von Stalingrad 1.5.1942 bis 3.2.1943", by Jochen Prien & co. ISBN 978-3-923457-77-9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubertus_von_Bonin
http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahsarisar
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.1...4358,43.819328

Re: JG 52 victories
 

There is a mountain of >5000m in the area, the Dychtau. They did not fly THAT high though ;)

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Well, what is amazing is that von Bonin claimed an Il-2 shot down at an altitude of 300 m 15 minutes before. A nice climb in a 1942 fighter while intercepting a fast recon aircraft. So maybe the first claim (Il-2) was 300 m above the ground (and not above the sea level) while the second was at 7000 m above the sea level.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Thanks very much for this info, Laurent.

Here's one for any contributors who might be able to help:

I read on another forum a long time ago that Helmut Lipfert downed a Hero of the Soviet Union IL-2 pilot over Hungary late in the war. Does anyone know who this might have been?

Re: JG 52 victories
 

I found this in Rosss McNeil's book "Royal Air Force Coastal Command Losses of the second world war Vol. 1

13Jun41 206 Sqn Hudson IV (AE612) VX-O P/O AF George and 3 crew KIA. Shot down into the North Sea 140 km W of Texel at 06:17 by Oblt. Karl-Heinz Leesmann Stab I/JG 52.

12Jun41 206 Sqn Hudson IV (AE614) VX-J P/O AF Sharp and 4 crew KIA. This one was listed as shot down into the North Sea 120 km W of Texel but has either at 19:05 hrs by Fw Metzler or at 21:15 hrs by Leesmann both of I/JG 52. The departure time was 16:45 for the Hudson.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Yeah, between Coastal Command Losses, Fighter Command Losses, Bomber Command Losses and the The Battles of Britain and France Then and Now, I pretty much have their western theatre kills covered.

It's JG 52's Eastern Front victims that I would most like to know more about. Please share any more info you might have on that particular subject. I really don't know if I have anything to offer you in return unless you are seeking something specific that I just might have.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

One question for our Russian friends: on 7 November 1943 Ltn. Franz Schall of 3./JG 53 claimed three U-2 shot down at 1505, 1506 and 1507 hrs in Pl.Qu. 34 Ost/47771 at an altitude of 2 m.

The above coordinate is according to my calculation in the marshs east of the Perekop isthmus between Crimea and Ukrain. The altitude given is very low and I guess the aircraft were attacked while flying on the desk over water or marsh.

An U-2 formation flying by day close to the front was not common, so maybe it will be possible to identify the Soviet unit and airmen involved.

Thanks in advance

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Laurent, I'm sure you meant 3./JG 52. From just looking at a map from Andrey Kuznetsov's book on the Kerch landing there seems to have been a drop of parachute brigades in the area of Dzhankoy on the 22Sep43. The U-2 and possibly other type aircraft were probably attempting to resupply them with ammo and food.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

You're right, it is JG 52 (a typo of my part).

Supply-dropping by U-2 was common, but usually at night.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Laurent, I believe it was probably a desparate situation much like at Kerch. Maybe Andrey can answer further.

I found another possible victory of II/JG 52 in the region of Leningrad for the 29 August 1941.
Stab II/JG 52 Uff. Bernhard Wilsky at 15:05 shot down a Douglas for his 7th victory, no location given. This was possibly a PS-84 (Li-2) of the GVF. III/JG 27, II/JG 53 and JG 54 did not report any such claims this day. Serzhant Ivan Ivanovich Adamov a pilot with the KBF, UVVS GVF was KIA after being shot down by a fighter near Sigalovo (which is on the southeast side of Lake Ladoga). There was another aircraft of the 29 UVVS GVF (KBF) flown by Ml. Lt. Valeriy Ivanovich Artemov that was listed as MIA that day with no location and no cause.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

For Mirek Wawrzynski: You were looking for the victors over some Soviet bombers in another thread on the 27Aug41. It wasn't JG 54 that you were looking for there.

Stab II/JG52 Oblt. Carl Hartmann SB-2 (11) 09:10 no location
4./JG 52 Oblt. Sigfried Simisch SB-2 (11) 09:11 no location
4./JG 52 Obfw. Adolf Reidmeir SB-2 (4) 09:11 no location

Soviet losses for 1 AE and 2 AE, 73 BAP KBF lost 3 SB and probably more from the number of MIA crew members. One pilot and 2 gunner - radio operators in the 1 AE and one pilot and three gunner-bombardiers in the 2 AE all MIA.

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Hello Laurent,

According to monthly report of 2.GBAD, 5-9.Nov.43 her U-2 supplied some bridgeheads of 10.Rifle Corps in Crimea, on the south coast of Sivash. 67 U-2 made 664 flights with 188 690 kg of ammo, 131 liaison officers, also 799 wounded were evacuated. 2 U-2 were downed and 4 U-2 were damaged by German fighters in the air, 2 U-2 were attacked and damaged on the ground.

7.Nov.43 on 16:00msk U-2 No.4739 (Lt Shishulin, 60.GBAP) was attacked by Bf109, and during evasive manoeuvre collided slightly with a truck and was damaged.
Also, according to monthly report, 7.Nov.43 U-2 No.3423 (Lt Chikalin, 60.GBAP) was attacked by 2 Bf109 and crashed (from H=5 m), pilot was wounded. But really it was 6.Nov.43 on 14:30 msk.

In some cases U-2 were landed to avoid the Bf109's attack and maybe Ltn. Franz Schall counted that as victories.

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Hello Nokose,

Air landing on Dzhankoy was a plan only, not a real landing. The plan was abandoned due to unsuccessful Dnepr air landing operation.

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Thanks Andrey

I will be interested in details of the 2 U-2 destroyed and 4 damaged in the air, to see how they may be linked to German claims.

In this area and time period, JG 52 reported the following claims:
_ on 6 Nov, Uffz Fritz Schneider of Stab I./JG 52 claimed a R-5 at 1125 hrs.
_ on 7 Nov, as said above, Lt Franz Schall of 3./JG 52 claimed three U-2 in 2 minutes at 1505-1507 hrs.
_ on 9 Nov, two battles:
1) in the morning, three U-2 were claimed shot down at 1115-1117 hrs by Uffz Bernhard Wenger (1) and Gefr Anton Resch (2) of 3./JG 52.
2) in the afternoon, Lt Franz Schall of 3./JG 52 claimed two U-2 in at 1425 hrs.
_ on 10 Nov, Uffz Alois Seibel of 3./JG 52 claimed a R-5 at 1152 hrs.

Can the U-2 of Lt Chikalin be the R-5 claimed by Schneider on the 6th ? I don't know the difference of time between Soviet and German hours ?

Thanks in advance

Re: JG 52 victories
 

Hello Laurent,

I didn't research these episodes especially, so have data from monthly reports and op.reports of 2.GBAD only. Regimental and other documents probably can gives more details. As you see, at least in one episode monthly report gives incorrect date.
Also, main operation zone of 2.GBAD during the time in question was Dnepr, so Division's headquarters received op.reports from Sivash area with some delay, and in the file they appeared after 15.Nov.43 and only for 6. and 7.Nov.

According to the monthly report of 2.GBAD:
6.Nov.43 2 U-2 (61.GBAP) was attacked by 2 Bf109. No.4677 burnt out, No.2945 damaged beyond repair. According to 2.GBAD op.report, on 16:30 No.5321 (St.Lt. Kryukov, 61.GBAP) was attacked by 2 Bf109 and during landing a screw and a undercarriage were damaged (it seems no damages from Bf109's fire).
7.Nov.43 No.3423 (Lt Chihalin, 60.GBAP) was attacked by 2 Bf109 and crashed (from H=5 m), pilot was wounded. As it mentioned above, according to operative report for 6.Nov, it was 6.Nov.43 on 14:30 msk.
7.Nov.43 No.4739 (Lt Shishulin, 60.GBAP) was attacked by Bf109, and during evasive manoeuvre collided slightly with a truck and was damaged. According to operative record for 7.Nov, it was 16:00 msk 7.Nov.
8.Nov.43 No.4846 (60.GBAP) was attacked by 2 Bf109 and burnt out. No 2.GBAD's op.record for the daytime of 8.Nov, so time of attacks is unknown for me.
10.Nov.43 2 U-2 (60.GBAP) were under attack of Bf109. No.4619 burnt out, No.4663 tail part breaked off, crews unharmed. No 2.GBAD's op.record for the daytime of 10.Nov, so time of attacks is unknown for me.

Yes, it seems.

From 03:00 4.Oct.43 to 02:00 3.Apr.44 difference was 2 hours so 11:52 in German claims was 13:52 msk

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: JG 52 victories
 

So the 10Nov43 U-2 (#4619) 60 GBAP that burnt out is more then likely the R-5 claimed by Uffz. Alois Seibel 3./JG 52 at 11:52 PlQ. 47 714 at 50 m. Then "more then likely" is because that's the only one showing in Tony Wood's list and J. Prien's next volume of JFV (12/II) could have more.