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-   -   ww2 crash cases exhibiton in Dubrovnik (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=52611)

drifter206 23rd November 2018 10:17

ww2 crash cases exhibiton in Dubrovnik
 
Hello all


I am an amateur researcher from Konavle county in Croatia. Almost two years ago I located crash site of then unknown US bomber that fell on mountain in my area. I decided to to some research and after almost one year I was able to find 10 cases in total in Konavle county. I am not the only author, lot of people gave me help in this, they all contributed in any form.

After almost two years of frenzy research on 20. of November 2018. we opened exhibition in old town of Dubrovnik about cases I was able to find out by now. For this exhibition we loaned parts from owners from villages in Konavle and put descriptions, pictures and documents regarding the case. This is first ever exhibition of this kind in Dubrovnik but I think in Croatia as well.



https://www.liberoportal.hr/novost/1...svjetskog-rata


https://www.dulist.hr/avionske-nesre...ostina/538986/


https://narod.hr/kultura/foto-u-dubr...svjetskog-rata


I am not a historian and also this is the first time ever that I prepared something like this so take into consideration that probably it could have been prepared much better :)
best regards
Antun

Tony Kambic 23rd November 2018 14:32

Re: ww2 crash cases exhibiton in Dubrovnik
 
Great work. Thanks for your time and energy in doing all of this. If you know the dates and/or tail numbers of the aircraft it would be help in obtaining more history on how they ended up there.

Hvala, Tony

RSwank 24th November 2018 16:35

Re: ww2 crash cases exhibiton in Dubrovnik
 
On the 2nd link he posted there is an associated series of 52 photos. The 15th photo has a map indicating the crash sites and a list of the 10 crashes. Allied crashes are a Spitfire (EN 582) and five B-24s. Four of the B-24s listed include the serial numbers. The fifth, which crashed in the sea, appears to be unidentified but may have gone down 3 or 4 July, 1944 (if I am reading it correctly). The four Axis planes all appear to be identified.

Some of the photos show he has MACRs for some (maybe all?) the identified AAF crashes.

drifter206 24th November 2018 22:25

Re: ww2 crash cases exhibiton in Dubrovnik
 
RSwank you are on spot right
We found 10 cases and on 8 we found dates, witnesses, documents, locations and parts in villages. Also in some cases we were able to find family members.

Two cases are still unclear because of lacking documents, witnesses or location. We have some information but not all we would like to have.
Our intention is to preserve these cases and one day hopefully to open some sort of museum. Whole process of researching was unbelievable experience.
best
Antun

RSwank 25th November 2018 00:40

Re: ww2 crash cases exhibiton in Dubrovnik
 
drifter206

I am curious about the "unidentified" B-24 that went into the sea. Looking at the photo you have, it appears to be about at 42 34N, and 18 09E or 18 10E. What are the actual co-ordinates you have? Have you actually dived on the wreckage or is this just an estimated crash location? How sure are you of the 3 or 4 July 1944 date? Is that from an eyewitness to the crash?

Frank Olynyk 25th November 2018 01:34

Re: ww2 crash cases exhibiton in Dubrovnik
 
One possibility for the B-24 noted at 42-34N, 18-09E, is B-24G 41-29289. MACR 6377 says it was last seen at 1445, July 3, 1944, at 42-50N, 18-10E. Target was Bucharest, Rumania, cause was mechanical failure. Crew of 10, one KIA, 9 evaded. 461st BG, 764th BS. Pilot 2nd Lt Mac L Lucas.

Enjoy!

Frank.

RSwank 25th November 2018 01:41

Re: ww2 crash cases exhibiton in Dubrovnik
 
The problem with 41-29289 is that according to the eyewitness statement in the MACR, the plane was seen to strike the ground and burst into flame.

drifter206 25th November 2018 08:49

Re: ww2 crash cases exhibiton in Dubrovnik
 
hi all
Underwater B 24 unconfirmed is actually only mystery.

On report from Independent state of Croatia, "on 4th of July it is written, 1 B-24 on that date was shot by antiaircraft fire, 12 crew ejected and were taken prisoners, B-24 went down in bay of Mlini."

No aircraft were ever found in bay (depth 30- 40meters) but, old people in Cavtat are saying that during ww2 aircraft crashed behind island of Bobara, island that is border island in that same bay. I found by now 4 people who are saying the same story, however they don't remember the parachutes.

Also, locals on at least 3 occasions during fishing behind the island pulled up some unidentified metal part. They threw them back, that was before I started my research (pity).
Depth in that area is 100 plus meters, so diving is only doable by professionals.
However I don't have the right location as well.
On 4th of July there was no B-24 lost in this area, but one 3rd of July 1944 B-24 was lost in area of Dubrovnik. MACR 6378. Two crew members evaded capture and 8 were captured near villages of Trebinje in Bosnia (now day). Border and those villages are very close to Dubrovnik area.

So my assumption is that crew bail out over Trebinje and aircraft kept flying and loosing altitude until it crashed behind island. Maybe I am totally wrong.

RSwank 25th November 2018 14:19

Re: ww2 crash cases exhibiton in Dubrovnik
 
MACR 6378 is for B-24 42-99754 "Nancy Lee" from the 451st BG 725th BS. Lost on July 3 , 1944. The pilot was James F Evarts, Jr. The MACR lists a crew of ten. Two men from the crew "evaded", S/Sgt Henry A Ulmer and Sgt Robert Fersht. The rest of the crew were sent to German POW camps.


Evarts' statement is that flak knocked out two engines over the target (Bucharest) and he flew the plane back 300 miles when the third engine quit over/near Dubrovnik. At that point the crew bailed out. The MACR contains a translated German document, ME 1757? or (1737? or 1787?) which says the plane crashed at Dubrovnik.

Information on Fersht is a little confusing. Here is his obit which says he was a POW.

http://articles.mcall.com/2000-02-03...air-force-club

The MACR has an "evader" statement from Fersht, dated 14 November 1944, in which he states that Ulmer had returned (to Italy) with him. Was he captured and then escaped? Was he injured and captured, then repatriated? It is not exactly clear. He does have a POW record here which mentions a hospital in Croatia:

https://aad.archives.gov/aad/record-...pg=1&rid=64126

drifter206 26th November 2018 10:08

Re: ww2 crash cases exhibiton in Dubrovnik
 
RSwank
You are spot on right with MACR report. I have him also (thanks to Miloš)

Unfortunately as I already wrote depth is 100 plus meters, exact location is unknown and all that makes this case unconfirmed. All I have is report from NDH (Croatia) and stories from locals.

I will try to do proper research with echo sound device next summer, and maybe organize something about diving but that will be very difficult task.

In the mean time I will talk to fisherman who are fishing in that area and maybe they have some more information.
I know about this case for almost a year and haven't moved a single bit. Life is like that sometimes.

best
Antun


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